Dropping like flies!
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From: Laurel
Of course, everything said about driver error is true. You must know your car and drive it to its capabilities. That said, I'm constantly amazed by the apologists for the tires and handling at the limit. If the tires suck in the cold, the tires suck, not the driver. If the tires suck when they wear, that's the tires, not the driver. If the tires break away without proper feedback, again that's the tires.
These are road tires. They need to meet the needs of their use. Regular S-02s seem to do this pretty well. IMHO, ours are over-doctored.
That a good and knowledgable driver can compensate for these failings doesn't mean they don't exist. If you drive your car at 7/10ths you'll probably never get in over your head. If you drive your car near 10/10ths you'll get in over your head from time to time. That's what the limit is all about. And at the limit, those car flaws are what takes you over the line. Just ask older 911 drivers.
These are road tires. They need to meet the needs of their use. Regular S-02s seem to do this pretty well. IMHO, ours are over-doctored.
That a good and knowledgable driver can compensate for these failings doesn't mean they don't exist. If you drive your car at 7/10ths you'll probably never get in over your head. If you drive your car near 10/10ths you'll get in over your head from time to time. That's what the limit is all about. And at the limit, those car flaws are what takes you over the line. Just ask older 911 drivers.
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From: :spam:u
Of course, everything said about driver error is true. You must know your car and drive it to its capabilities. That said, I'm constantly amazed by the apologists for the tires and handling at the limit. If the tires suck in the cold, the tires suck, not the driver. If the tires suck when they wear, that's the tires, not the driver. If the tires break away without proper feedback, again
that's the tires.
that's the tires.
The S02s are a performance tire that need to be up to temp before they give 100% of their designed performance.
Anyone who does not respect that fact and compensate for it in their driving habits is foolish. A GOOD driver would not push his or her automobile until everything has warmed up to their normal operating temps. This includes the tires.
It has been said before,...."The S2000 does not suffer fools gladly"
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From: :spam:u
Originally posted by WRS2K
Bieg, you talk too much.
Bieg, you talk too much.
In this warm and fuzzy politically correct time what gets lost is people taking resposibility for thier actions.
If someone smacks their car up I guess it HAS to be the fault of the car or the tires or anything but the fact that they may have screwed up.
The S02s don't give optimum grip until they warm up. Deal with it and drive accordingly.
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From: Phoenix
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jschmidt
[B]Of course, everything said about driver error is true. You must know your car and drive it to its capabilities. That said, I'm constantly amazed by the apologists for the tires and handling at the limit. If the tires suck in the cold, the tires suck, not the driver. If the tires suck when they wear, that's the tires, not the driver. If the tires break away without proper feedback, again that's the tires.
[B]Of course, everything said about driver error is true. You must know your car and drive it to its capabilities. That said, I'm constantly amazed by the apologists for the tires and handling at the limit. If the tires suck in the cold, the tires suck, not the driver. If the tires suck when they wear, that's the tires, not the driver. If the tires break away without proper feedback, again that's the tires.
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From: Laurel
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tanqueray
[B]
jschmidt,
I don't agree with this... My point is this: any tire loses grip as it wears down, any tire has less grip when cold, so the owner bears full responsibility for compensating for this characteristic (no, not failing).
[B]
jschmidt,
I don't agree with this... My point is this: any tire loses grip as it wears down, any tire has less grip when cold, so the owner bears full responsibility for compensating for this characteristic (no, not failing).
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From: :spam:u
The S02s ARE performance tires and as such they have a tread compound that performs best when it has some heat in it (like a race tire).
If you want tires that perform well when ice cold perhaps you should put Blizzacks on your car.
Because Honda co develops a model specific tire with Bridgestone it makes them bastardized?
If you want tires that perform well when ice cold perhaps you should put Blizzacks on your car.
Because Honda co develops a model specific tire with Bridgestone it makes them bastardized?
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From: Deptford, New Jersey
Originally posted by Bieg
The S02s ARE performance tires and as such they have a tread compound that performs best when it has some heat in it (like a race tire).
If you want tires that perform well when ice cold perhaps you should put Blizzacks on your car.
Because Honda co develops a model specific tire with Bridgestone it makes them bastardized?
The S02s ARE performance tires and as such they have a tread compound that performs best when it has some heat in it (like a race tire).
If you want tires that perform well when ice cold perhaps you should put Blizzacks on your car.
Because Honda co develops a model specific tire with Bridgestone it makes them bastardized?
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From: North Richland Hills, TX
Wow Bieg, you're back! Not only that, I agree w/ you 100% for the first time! The S2000 is marketed as a pure, no compromise sports car for true driving enthusiasts. I neither want nor expect compromises in ultimate adhesion for more practical considerations.
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From: On the lakefront...
Yes, Bieg, you're back...I see in the same style, as well. 
I agree with you, as actually, I agreed with you on a lot of what you said in the past.
The fact remains, this car is what it is and it's up to the driver to make sure that they understand the car and that includes knowing when the tires are at operating temperature. I learned this lesson the hard way...but the same lesson need not be learned by others at this point. Enough S2000's have died (but in my case, risen from the ashes).
Learning this car, how it reacts and what it likes is essential to squeezing all the goodness out of it. Making sure that tires are warm is only one part of the equation. It also is about responsibly handling what you know about the car on the street.
I was never pointing fingers at anyone, if anyone has that impression. The fact is that if you drove the car into a curb or whatever, that the car didn't it by itself.
I agree with you, as actually, I agreed with you on a lot of what you said in the past.
The fact remains, this car is what it is and it's up to the driver to make sure that they understand the car and that includes knowing when the tires are at operating temperature. I learned this lesson the hard way...but the same lesson need not be learned by others at this point. Enough S2000's have died (but in my case, risen from the ashes).
Learning this car, how it reacts and what it likes is essential to squeezing all the goodness out of it. Making sure that tires are warm is only one part of the equation. It also is about responsibly handling what you know about the car on the street.
I was never pointing fingers at anyone, if anyone has that impression. The fact is that if you drove the car into a curb or whatever, that the car didn't it by itself.