just to let you know, i have my cdv taken off and only have 5000 miles on my odo. now why the hell would honda engineers design the powertrain so it falls out of vtec after shifts?

 

you're describing a massive misconception, aka, mental ERROR

 

AP1 FTW!

 

Well, not all AP2 owners agree with this.

 

Granted, some of the engergy is being turned into heat due to the friction between the flywheel and friction disk. But that's the only energy loss, and I suspect it's quite minimal. Keep in mine that there are TWO kinds of clutch slippage. The first, which is what I think you're talking about, is when you hit the gas and the clutch simply doesn't have enough grip to keep from slipping. I 100% agree with you, that's SLOW. The engine will just bounce of the rev-limit and the car will not go anywhere. However, there's a second kind of clutch slip which comes from the fact that engagement is not instantaneous, even though the clutch has more than enough grabbing power. ALL the engine's energy is trasfered to the drivetrain except for that tiny bit lost to heat generated by the friction.

A slipping clutch needs to be changed if the driver has to get off the gas to allow it to fully engage. That's not what happens on the AP2 cars, however.

 

then they have issues with shifting speed and shifting too early.

 

Clutch slipping is clutch slipping. The only difference is in duration and speed differential of the flywheel to the transmission input shaft.

Also...not all of the energy lost is being turned into heat. Most of it is being used to turn the flywheel. You have to remember there are 2 kinds of friction, static and kinetic. Nearly 100% of the power made by the engine is transferred through the clutch so long as the static fiction threshold is not broken...in other words the clutch is not slipping...and the flywheel speed is the same as the tranny input shaft speed. But once the static friction threshold is crossed and the clutch begins to slip, the flywheel speed is faster than the tranny input shaft speed. Once the input shaft speed catches up with the flywheel speed, then the clutch "grabs".

You can test this now...take a coin and place it on your desk. Press your finger on the coin and slowly twist. At some point the static friction threshold is broken and the coin starts to turn. You are imparting a torque on the desk surface but it's not turning. How much heat is being generated by this? Not much. So where is all of the energy going from you twisting the coin? Well it is being turned into rotational work...ie the coin is turning...and that is all.

 

ugh come on guys, this has gotten useless already. just have fun with ur cars

 

I entirely agree with that. I simply disagree with you, I think, that the slight clutch slippage during engagement has any significant impact on the car's acceleration. I still believe that because the revs are dropping during the slippage during engagement, the engine's entire energy output is still being transferred to the drivetrain. In essence, it's exactly like a CVT, you know?

Aww, c'mon antonio88x, I enjoy discussions like this. It's civil, informative, and good brain exercise.

 

Again...this is very easy to prove to yourself. Lets modify the coin experiment a bit:

Take a CD and place it on your desk. Use your fingers to turn the CD. You have no problem turning it, correct?

Now take the coin again and turn it with your fingers with the smallest amount of downward pressure that you can and still make the coin turn.

So you have proved to yourself that you can generate enough torque to turn both, correct?

Now place the coin in the center of the CD. Use as close to the same downpressure as before to turn the coin. Does the CD turn too? Maybe a little but not with the same rotational velocity as the coin. Why isn't the CD turning? You proved earlier that you can generate the torque needed to spin both the CD and the coin. So where is all the power that you are producing going when you spin the coin? Is it going into the CD? Can't be, if it were then the CD would spin at the same rate as the coin.

The coin is the flywheel...the CD is the clutch. If the clutch is not spinning at the same rate as the flywheel then there is power loss to the drivetrain...power which would otherwise be making it through the drivetrain if the clutch were not slipping.