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Educate a first time snow driver

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Old Dec 5, 2018 | 05:15 PM
  #51  
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Snow tires on a second set of wheels for all your vehicles.
Put em on once temps drop below 40F.
My wife drove a Fiat 500 with snow tires for several years here in MN. She'd run circles around many SUV's on the road in winter storms.
I just put Nokians on my S4 and it rips in the snow. Awesome snow tires.
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Old Dec 5, 2018 | 07:20 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Chuck S
Care to pick this apart point by point?

Snow tires are unnecessary as snow is rarely deep enough long enough and they don't help at all on ice. All season tires are more than adequate, and that's what are on most cars on the road. Ya need more than that consider AWD.

-- Chuck
AWD won't help when braking. Winter tires will.




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Old Dec 5, 2018 | 08:04 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Chuck S
Care to pick this apart point by point?

In reality there are three (3) major types of tires. Summer, All Season, and Winter/Snow tires. Summer tires are inappropriate due to tread compounds for winter in this region. Snow tires are unnecessary as snow is rarely deep enough long enough and they don't help at all on ice. All season tires are more than adequate, and that's what are on most cars on the road. Ya need more than that consider AWD.

-- Chuck
Sorry Chuck. In Quebec Canada, winter tires are not only necessary but mandatory if you want to drive in winter. In Victoria here, they recommend winter tires as well as chains when traveling under so called winter conditions, in higher elevations. We get roughly 2 or 3 snow falls a year, both about an inch or two. Either we have a lot of bad drivers, or somebody knows something.
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Old Dec 7, 2018 | 09:24 AM
  #54  
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I've lived in Chicago for 46 years. That front wheel drive, 4-cylinder Corolla will be a champ in the snow. No worries there! Keep in mind that you rarely will be driving in deep snow. Just buy good "all season" tires for that car and run them year round. When it does snow, the plow trucks and salt trucks take care of that pretty quickly. Your rear wheel drive Scion is another story: Yes, winter tires on at least the two back wheels will help and maybe a bag or two of sand in the trunk/hatch for additional weight over the rear wheels (only put that in on days it is supposed to snow) and then just drive conservatively and switch tires back to whatever you like in the Spring. You will see many all wheel drive vehicles pass you up on a wintery road...let them. Yeah, they can start faster than you because of their all wheel drive and go flying past you way too fast for conditions but watch for them in the ditch a few miles down the road. Stopping and turning is just as hard in all wheel or 4 wheel drive cars. Just take it slow and cautiously, leave extra distance and you will be fine.

The real question is are you particular about the condition of your cars? If so, get ready for what just 1 season of salting the roads will do to your car!!!!! You have no idea how corrosive salt is on the undercarriage. I bought a 9 year old used Tundra that had spent it's entire first 9 years in Anaheim, CA. I brought it home to Chicago looking like it should still be on the showroom floor. After the first winter in Chicago every bit of the underside...every bolt, nut, screw, piece of metal, including the aluminum block engine corroded. That was 4 years ago and it continues to deteriorate to this day. Salt sucks. Just wanted to break that news to you.

Welcome to the Midwest!
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Old Dec 7, 2018 | 09:29 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by JRG2000
I've lived in Chicago for 46 years. That front wheel drive, 4-cylinder Corolla will be a champ in the snow. No worries there! Keep in mind that you rarely will be driving in deep snow. Just buy good "all season" tires for that car and run them year round. When it does snow, the plow trucks and salt trucks take care of that pretty quickly. Your rear wheel drive Scion is another story: Yes, winter tires on at least the two back wheels will help and maybe a bag or two of sand in the trunk/hatch for additional weight over the rear wheels (only put that in on days it is supposed to snow) and then just drive conservatively and switch tires back to whatever you like in the Spring. You will see many all wheel drive vehicles pass you up on a wintery road...let them. Yeah, they can start faster than you because of their all wheel drive and go flying past you way too fast for conditions but watch for them in the ditch a few miles down the road. Stopping and turning is just as hard in all wheel or 4 wheel drive cars. Just take it slow and cautiously, leave extra distance and you will be fine.

The real question is are you particular about the condition of your cars? If so, get ready for what just 1 season of salting the roads will do to your car!!!!! You have no idea how corrosive salt is on the undercarriage. I bought a 9 year old used Tundra that had spent it's entire first 9 years in Anaheim, CA. I brought it home to Chicago looking like it should still be on the showroom floor. After the first winter in Chicago every bit of the underside...every bolt, nut, screw, piece of metal, including the aluminum block engine corroded. That was 4 years ago and it continues to deteriorate to this day. Salt sucks. Just wanted to break that news to you.

Welcome to the Midwest!
Why would you not put winter tires on your cars during winter? I just don't understand why people are willing to risk their lives over "nah, all season is good enough".

Secondly, mixing tires on a car is NEVER a good idea.
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Old Dec 7, 2018 | 11:57 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo
Why would you not put winter tires on your cars during winter? I just don't understand why people are willing to risk their lives over "nah, all season is good enough".

Secondly, mixing tires on a car is NEVER a good idea.
All I can say is that the snow is not as bad as you think. In college (Midwest) my roommate was from Visalia, CA and he too had never really lived anywhere with snow. The first day we had ice on our windshields he was trying to scrape it off with a kitchen knife. When I told him to go down the street to the gas station and buy a snowbrush he said "ha ha, very funny...you're not gonna make me look dumb, what am I going to do, brush my hair with it?" and thought I was playing a joke on him.

I grew up in the 1970's in a blue collar, middle class neighborhood where nobody had a ton of extra money - when most cars were rear wheel drive. When winter came, you did a few things: put snow tires on the rear, a couple of bags of sand or kitty litter in the trunk; which served two purposes. #1 It added weight over the tires for traction and then when you get stuck you would pour it under the tires for traction to help get you unstuck. Finally, you put a blanket in the trunk to keep you warm in case you were stuck and your POS car's heater didn't work. That's all we did.

As cars evolved to front wheel drive and tire compounds improved, snow isn't really a big deal anymore, seriously.
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Old Dec 7, 2018 | 12:44 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by JRG2000
All I can say is that the snow is not as bad as you think. In college (Midwest) my roommate was from Visalia, CA and he too had never really lived anywhere with snow. The first day we had ice on our windshields he was trying to scrape it off with a kitchen knife. When I told him to go down the street to the gas station and buy a snowbrush he said "ha ha, very funny...you're not gonna make me look dumb, what am I going to do, brush my hair with it?" and thought I was playing a joke on him.

I grew up in the 1970's in a blue collar, middle class neighborhood where nobody had a ton of extra money - when most cars were rear wheel drive. When winter came, you did a few things: put snow tires on the rear, a couple of bags of sand or kitty litter in the trunk; which served two purposes. #1 It added weight over the tires for traction and then when you get stuck you would pour it under the tires for traction to help get you unstuck. Finally, you put a blanket in the trunk to keep you warm in case you were stuck and your POS car's heater didn't work. That's all we did.

As cars evolved to front wheel drive and tire compounds improved, snow isn't really a big deal anymore, seriously.
Missing the point. I do not care how much "it isnt a big deal" it is 100% better on snow tires. If I can spend virtually no more money (when considering not wearing my other tires as fast) and have much better ability to stop and steer on snow, I will do that. I have spent the last half of my life in MN, autox, etc and would be happy to compete with most on snow driving ability and I still run them. And again, SNOW is not the biggest issue. Deeper snow is easier to drive in than a thin coating to be honest, so the "it doesnt snow that deep often" argument really does not count for much. ICE is a big issue and there is simply no comparing any all season I have seen to winters in that case.

When I moved here, I argued with people too .. maybe because I too had to prove to someone that "I am a good driver, I do not NEED snow tires" lol Then I tried a set and ordered 2 more that year for my other winter driven cars. I will drive circles around most vehicles in snow in my 3rd gen 4runner on all seasons, still have winters on them and it is comical how much better they are.

Totally understand folks not being able to afford them, that is a totally different discussion. But if you can get them, there really is little reason not to.Just makes your life that much easier and safer around all the other crazies on the road when the snow and ice flies.

And people keep talking about "well FWD, AWD, etc". None of that makes any difference in stopping ability. Only your tire compound will make that difference. And AWD cars are typically heavier, making them harder to stop. So again, in arguably the worst case, stopping, the only thing that matters is tires.

And I will continue to be one of those frustrated people stuck behind someone in their AWD or FWD that did not "need" snow tires... zig zagging from every intersection trying to get started .. lol Happens constantly here.

Do what you like, and that is fine. But the whole FWD, all seasons have gotten better, etc just are not valid arguments really. The only part that concerns me is when someone asks and are given poor info in return to their question. And there is a lot of bad info flying around in here!
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Old Dec 7, 2018 | 01:06 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by JRG2000
All I can say is that the snow is not as bad as you think. In college (Midwest) my roommate was from Visalia, CA and he too had never really lived anywhere with snow. The first day we had ice on our windshields he was trying to scrape it off with a kitchen knife. When I told him to go down the street to the gas station and buy a snowbrush he said "ha ha, very funny...you're not gonna make me look dumb, what am I going to do, brush my hair with it?" and thought I was playing a joke on him.

I grew up in the 1970's in a blue collar, middle class neighborhood where nobody had a ton of extra money - when most cars were rear wheel drive. When winter came, you did a few things: put snow tires on the rear, a couple of bags of sand or kitty litter in the trunk; which served two purposes. #1 It added weight over the tires for traction and then when you get stuck you would pour it under the tires for traction to help get you unstuck. Finally, you put a blanket in the trunk to keep you warm in case you were stuck and your POS car's heater didn't work. That's all we did.

As cars evolved to front wheel drive and tire compounds improved, snow isn't really a big deal anymore, seriously.
I agree. I live in one of the suburbs of Chicago, and unless you drive a RWD car, I wouldn't spend the money on snow tires. Seriously. My daily drivers are a 2006 Ford Fusion and a 2007 Hyundai Entourage van (a real tank). I'm pushing 60 years old, have lived all but 8 years of my life in the midwest and I've NEVER put snow tires on ANY car that I've ever owned and driven in midwest winters (CRX, Celica, Jetta, Chevette(!), Acura Vigor, Fusion, and Entourage. The S2000 and NSX are stored all winter and don't see snow). Not that putting snow tires on a car is a bad idea, I'm just of the opinion that it isn't necessary unless you drive a RWD car or live somewhere like Buffalo where they get hammered with snow most winters.

As far as driving is concerned, just slow down and allow a lot more room to stop. Driving in snow isn't rocket science.

Last edited by jeffreygebhart; Dec 7, 2018 at 01:09 PM.
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Old Dec 7, 2018 | 01:25 PM
  #59  
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Be careful! I posted similar "drivel" a couple days ago... All seasons are all ya need. (Meaning not-Summer tires.)

-- Chuck
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Old Dec 7, 2018 | 01:28 PM
  #60  
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with all of the advice I've tried to provide in this post , I drove through my neighbourhood today and hit a patch of ice at a roundabout. It's the kind of ice that leaves you helpless, pure ice hidden under fluffy snow, probably worse than black ice. The car just plowed straight, not doing more than 20 mph, and ABS was useless, I ended up letting off the brake and getting the car sideways so the wheels stopped motion up against the curb. If I continued going straight I would have demo'd the front bumper and undercarriage. My suspension is messed up, hopefully just out of alignment, I don't see any bent parts from early inspections.but I'll know better tomorrow.
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