S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

Excellent Article Explaining "Polar Moment of Inertia"

Thread Tools
 
Old Nov 19, 2000 | 02:14 PM
  #41  
RT's Avatar
RT
25 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,269
Likes: 42
From: Redmond, WA
Default

Originally posted by Zippy:
But only if the bear is spinning opposite to the rotation of the earth when it enters the water.
A nice cerebral discussion, it's nice to see that some people were awake in their mechanics/dynamics classes.
Actually, I wasn't, but I drooled enough to moisten the textbook for a little osmosis action

Reply
Old Jan 9, 2008 | 06:42 PM
  #42  
Mikes256's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 501
Likes: 1
Default

Reply
Old Jan 9, 2008 | 10:42 PM
  #43  
iKMTi's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 831
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
Default

Excellent.. .love these article.
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 02:36 AM
  #44  
ZDan's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Default

Couple of points:
1) 50/50 is not "perfect" weight distribution. For a decent power/weight rwd car, rear weight bias is better for performance. 50/50 is pretty good for a rwd street car, 45/55 would be better for performance.
R&T screwed the pooch on this again when they compared the Caliber SRt4 vs. MazdaSpeed3 when they referred to the Calibers ~59/41 weight distribution as "better" than the MS3's ~62/38 (don't remember the exact numbers). WRONG! It is the MS3 which has the superior f/r distribution for performance (which is actually borne out in their acceleration testing, in which the inferior power/weight MS3 pulls ahead of the SRT4 from 0 to about 40 or so, and MS3 killed it in the slalom). 50/50 would be HORRIBLE weight distribution for a front-driver! The car wouldn't be able to get out of its own way!

2) There is no "front mid-engine" layout. Generally, FR cars will much have the engine placed somewhat aft. Nothing magic happens when the entire engine is aft of front wheel centerline (assuming that is the arbitrary point at which marketers are deciding the car becomes "front mid engine).

FF => engine in front of passenger compartment, generally situated largely in front of the front wheels
FR => engine in front of passenger compartment, generally situated largely behind front wheels
MR => engine behind passenger compartment, in front of rear wheels
RR => engine behind rear wheels

Adding a "front mid" layout at some arbitrarily chosen engine location relative to front wheel centerline is pure marketing. Sure it's better to have the engine more aft in a rwd car, but nothing "magic" happens at the above mentioned arbitrarily chosen engine loction (just like nothing "magic" happens at the 50/50 weight distribution the mags always refer to as being "perfect).
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 06:52 AM
  #45  
ace123's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 3
Default

hehe ok i could actually make an illustration and try to make my point clear, but it would require time and thought, and it seems like it would be more fun to let everyone else argue semantics until nobody understands it, so i'll just see if i can open a can of worms instead.

RWD car below, where x is CG and | or \ are wheels, is turning, yanks wheels almost instantly to the left. what happens while he has forward momentum and no rotational momentum? what happens when he starts turning, but hasnt reached steady state? and what happens at steady state?

car 1 (50/50 weight)
\-------\
-------
---x---
-------
|-------|

car 2 (suppose 40/60 weight)
\-------\
-------
-------
---x---
|-------|

and why not, car 3 (suppose 60/40 weight)
\-------\
---x---
-------
-------
|-------|

MOI for cars is not defined, so how would a small vs large one would change things for a given car?

I'll start: initially, the MOI governs acceleration, but the unequal forces and resulting moments due to the force normal to the tires.... then inertia.... head hurts__havent_ gone __to_ work__yet
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 07:11 AM
  #46  
ace123's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 3
Default

and i forgot to mention where the moment of inertia is centered--at COM, in front, behind, or even skewed a bit left/right (time for a diet?) if people care anymore ill start trying to add bits of truth, but it will contain occasional unintended bad assumptions or errors.

also, if the engineers could discuss physics almost exclusively, the armchair engineers could jeer us when some of the effects are negligible or tuned out with springs and dampers.

maybe this will be a 3-D discussion in the end with 2nd order equations at each wheel. anyone have access to a simulink license? we could make a c++ program out of our banter and have a basic handling software package out of this.
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 07:17 AM
  #47  
plokivos's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 2
From: atlanta
Default

so in simple term, you're not overloading the front or back, so car handles better.

that's all that was.
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 07:39 AM
  #48  
__redruM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,466
Likes: 0
From: WV Pan Handle
Default

Originally Posted by ZDan,Jan 10 2008, 07:36 AM
2) There is no "front mid-engine" layout. Generally, FR cars will much have the engine placed somewhat aft. Nothing magic happens when the entire engine is aft of front wheel centerline (assuming that is the arbitrary point at which marketers are deciding the car becomes "front mid engine).
I'd say you missed the point of the article. It's not about weight distribution on the wheels, it's about having as much weight as possible near the Center-of-Gravity. This makes the car easier to turn.

Try reading it again...
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 08:07 AM
  #49  
ZDan's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Default

Didn't miss the point of the article, just addressing the misconceptions of other respondents in this thread.
I totally appreciate the importance of mass centralization.
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 04:13 PM
  #50  
mister x's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 6
From: Honolulu
Default

Get a baseball bat. Swing it holding the handle. Swing it holding the head. Think about which was easier while sipping a cold beer. Wait for enlightenment.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Forcednduckshn
S2000 Racing and Competition
15
Oct 18, 2011 05:22 PM
s2konroids
UK & Ireland S2000 Community
35
May 9, 2007 01:43 AM
DarkSigma
S2000 Street Encounters
3
Nov 7, 2006 09:09 AM
rlaifatt
S2000 Racing and Competition
55
Apr 5, 2004 09:19 AM




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:15 AM.