Ks320..... "huge" can you mention all what you know about the difference.

I appreciate it.

 

Huge as in how the engine delivers the power.

F20C1 feels very very sluggish below VTEC, where as F20C2 and F22C feel much more drive-able in city driving because there seems to be more usable low-end torque. I don't think the actual numbers differ significantly based on dyno graphs, but the F20C2 and F22C really do feel torquier.

The VTEC kick-in is also much more dramatic (especially in 1st gear) in the F20C1. The F20C2 and F22C's kick-ins are much smoother, and I don't feel as scared of breaking the tail loose in 1st gear @ 6000rpm-ish.

Finally, the F20C2 and F22C engines feel a tad smoother when the revs climb up. This, I suppose, is a personal thing. The F20C1 does give you a slightly more "raw" feeling ... where as the F20C2 and F22C feel more refined. So this one isn't entirely a Engine X is better than Engine Y thing.

 

OK, this is like deja vu. I've been on this path before. We should leave this topic back in 2004, please!

 

IIRC the f20c1 gets a 13.6 - 13.7 1/4 et, and the f20c2 gets 14.1 - 14.2 1/4 et.

 

0.5 second on a 1/4 mile!!!! That's huge advantage for the F20C1. According to Ks320, that's not possible. Also, what Ks320 is say make sense, I use to have 2007 USDM S2000 and the VTEC kick was smooth, just like my current F20C2, though you feel the kick a little more than the F22C, but in F20C1 there is a big difference in the kick which is exactly what he said. Where did you read or try that the F20C1 is faster by0.5?

 

i think the difference were either the cams or ecu/pcm. i say cams because on the non-vtec lobes were uneven to give a swirl of air and fuel mixing to get better gas milage but honda didnt know at the time was that it lost a little bit of hp and tq. i know in the usdm s2k, the ap1 f20c1 cams are wanted in ap2 because of their more aggressive vtec lobe but they didnt know was the know vtec lobes losing power. honda eventually found that the uneven lobes lost power in the low range and fixed it in the f22c.

i dont really have any reason to say ecu/pcm but i has been know that they have made modifications to it.

 

In my service manual, an "official" 00'-03' Honda ECM (Electronic Service Manual), they only mention the 2 types, F20C1 vs F20C2, once.
And that is in the chapter "Fuel & Emissions Control"
If I run a search for "F20C1" in that manual, it also only shows that chapter.
In Europe the F20C1 are the "KH", "KQ" and "KU" models.
The F20C2 are the "KE" and "KG" models.
But I have no clue what that really means.
I do know that the "KG" is used here in the Netherlands to describe a car (any car) with a controlled catalyst converter, with primary and secondary sensors (like we have)
There used to be uncontrolled converters as well IIRC.

No difference in the chapters about the engine itself, gearbox, diff, suspension, etc.

My EDM MY00 engine was an F20C2.
My EDM MY05 is an F20C2.

 

Interesting information. so F20C2 is made for region (Europe) 2000-2009.
Never had F20C1. I thought F20C1 was made for all region in 2000-2003, then F20C2 2004+, but since US got the 2.2 Liter, you can't find it there.

 

How about gearing? I'm still wondering if this is where a big difference is. If they changed the synchros, why wouldn't they change the gears too? A tune would have helped, but I'm wondering if that's all there is to it. And were the cams redone for sure on the F20C2?


Will anyone post where the gearing lands you at redline or any specific RPM level for each gear on an F20C2? Then an AP1 owner and an F22 AP2 owner can post the same data and it will be known. I just suspect that since they upgraded the synchros, they'd go with the new gears, and that would make it faster.

(And if you post the data, please mention your tire sizes if they're not OEM, as that will change it slightly...)

 

The later models are also heavier though, so that could cause the difference too.