I've been following a thread where the topic is "wiggle," and I routinely follow threads that discuss our car's stability, and threads that discuss finding the car's limits, and today, while editing video from last Sunday's autocross, I came across a short clip that seems to address several of these issues. I looked at several older threads to see where it fit best, but it seemed to relate to so many different threads that I couldn't make up my mind, and decided that I'd do better if I just started a new thread.

Last Sunday it was damp, cool (50's), and very windy, so getting heat into our tires was a problem. The surface we were running on was also pretty slick, and grip varied from one section of the course to the next. In the clip (link below) I enter a LONG sweeper with an increasing radius, and the radius increases at a rate that required HARD acceleration, all the way around the turn. The clip shows me pushing it just a tiny bit too hard, and repeatedly breaking traction at the back, recovering, and then doing it all over again. I actually do this three times in a row, though the third wag is so subtle that you might miss it. The fist two wags are obvious, as you can actually see that the car rotates relative to the direction of travel.

I guess I'd like everyone to notice a couple things (and ignore all my mistakes ).

1) There is no "snap" to the oversteer. The tail steps out gently and predictably.

2) It is easy to recover. Just *ease* off the throttle, *just enough* to get the tail to tuck back in. As long as you catch the impending slide in time, and respond appropriately, the car will do exactly what you ask.

3) This is, quite frankly, the only way I know to learn a car's limits. To learn the limits, you have to exceed them. With the S2000, exceeding the limits without losing control takes practice, and even with practice there will be times when you won't be able to recover as gracefully as you'd like; SO, the street is not the place to be learning.

Watch this video, then if you're not already tracking or autocrossing, but drive hard on the street, consider going to an autocross and learning your car's limits in a reasonably safe environment.

BTW, this is all in second gear, with speeds at the end of about 60 MPH (top of second gear).

Please right-click and save-as. (File is under 1 meg. )

 

Cool vid!

 

I never felt like they were too tail happy, ive always felt most rotation situations were from bad tires or entering the corner too hot and suddenly letting of the gas/stabbing the brakes. the only time my back end really steps out is hitting a patch of dirt/sand, and i still manage to recover.

 

thanks!

i've got an 06, so i know its a moot point, but i've never had any trouble correcting oversteer (with TCS off of course). sometimes i break the back end loose unexpectedly when i make a fast turn on a bad road surface, but that's really my error, not the car's. and then i learn the limits a bit better.

i think the majority of the issues are caused by two things:
1. first RWD car is the s2000 and i just got it
2. bad road conditions/worn tires

 

I think its the driver... Not many people know how to "drive" the car

 

nice vid red_mx5. your input is appreciated, i hope the young ones understand the point you are trying to make.

this can also be called, steering with the throttle.

 

I got the back end loose on a track day when I was learning it's limits. Was rather easily corrected actually, thanks in part to my karting experience (maybe?).

Although to be fair I couldnt slide the S around a turn as easily and controlled as I could a gokart

 

I concur on driver, the S was my first RWD car in about 15 years and it

 

Hmm, I took the snap oversteer as relating to when the car is using all or almost all its traction for cornering and very little is left for ham fisted throttle control. The high traction is upsetted by poor throttle control or vtec hp step. Once the traction is upset the car momentum and reduced traction from sliding (sideslip) prevent the car from returning to the intended path. That video looked like 30% of traction was used for cornering and 70% for accelerating out of the decreasing radius. Step the rear out in a steady hard corner where almost all the traction is being used for cornering and see if the throttle can save it. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

When I mess with the rear traction, it is fairly far below max corner speeds so that I am feathering throttle against lots of excess traction. It is easy to recover. Instead of cornering on the razor's edge, I corner on the broad edge and get enjoyable dramatic drives out of the corner.

I also wonder if different tires can correct the overstear or understear habits on the edge.

 

there are owners out there that don't know how to drive their cars.

a few weeks ago going home after a midnight drive i had an AP1 owner at a light decide to show boat and topped of 1st gear then proceded to cut me off heading into a intersection turn lane. when we hit the intersection turning left i see him getting on the brakes a little bit before mid-turn so i go around and pass him at mid turn i dive into the right lane while he goes for the middle lane. at the next light intersection he's a few cars back so i show him how to to attack a corner and do a proper out in out from 60-40mph.