[QUOTE=zzziippyyy,Jul 11 2009, 03:47 PM]did that nhsta data show driver experience?

 

I dont want to start an argument, but if I were to get the VSA...I could always turn it off.

There are alot of deer & turkey in the roads near me, and if its raining I'd be scared. The guy down the street from me leaves food in the yard for the birds.

Thanks for the discussion so far everyone! I've been watching alot of Youtube exhaust videos, makes me want the car even more. The invidia v4 seems to sound nice without droning.

 

Here is my .02 on VSA.

I have not once activated VSA on my car when I was not intending to break the wheels loose. Then again I am a semi experienced driver (not saying I'm Michael Schumacher or anything, just that I know what the limits of my tires are and don't go over them.)

Most cars out there have a massive understeer bias at the limit because a driver who tenses up in a oversteer situation is likely to make matters worse than if he were experiencing understeer. Having said that, both under and oversteer are achievable with almost any car on the road.

The S2000 (being a car that was designed originally as a limited run model for enthusiasts) has a pretty neutral bias. A lot of people can mis manage their cars at the limit and cause massive oversteer when they approach the limit in their S2000s. (Again, I don't think of myself as a driving God at all.)

Because the S2000 is setup to handle neutrally (and thus more prone to sliding) people say things like "ZOMG TEH S2000 IS MAD UNSTABLEXORZ!!!!" When really the car is perfectly safe to drive. And it is. (Don't argue with me on this, the S2k is a safe car to drive even without VSC) Someone posted that it is nice in bad weather that you don't have to concentrate "like a rally driver", this to me is a silly statement. It doesn't take any work to keep this car from spinning if you aren't driving faster than the tires can grip. Millions of people drive through the rain without slipping their tires. Slow down if you are unsure about your safety.(If you are in snow or rain without tires adequate for the situation, that is another story)

Because of the reputation, and the sales success of the S2000, Honda over the years has been changing the car to make it a little more palatable to the general public. They changed the spring rates, and if I remember correctly the anti-roll bars to make the car more and more understeer bias.

Then they finally gave in and added VSC. I personally see VSC as a crutch, an unnecessary nanny that needs to be shut off. I feel that if you go into a corner and your not sure if the car can hold itself, you need to slow the **** down, not rely on the computer to apply the brakes for you.

My fear is that tech like this is going to make people braver (Is dumber a better word?) and go into situations that physics won't allow. (VSC is not magic, you still cannot drive faster than your tires can grip)

So, in my opinion is VSC worth spending any money on at all? No, not a chance. Buy an older model, and take $1,000 of that money and spend it on a couple of track sessions where you get professional instruction. I guarantee you will be many times safer knowing what you are doing than hoping the computer and rear brakes can bail you out of a stupid situation.

Sorry for the essay but this is something I feel pretty strongly about.

Cliffs notes: Buy a less expensive model, and spend the left over cash learning how to drive better than the computer.

 

Strangelove, any tires you would recommend?

 

[QUOTE=Dr. Strangelove,Jul 11 2009, 05:42 PM] Here is my .02 on VSA.

 

I'm with C-Kit on this one.

I agree with everyone so far that has said that when an experienced driver is properly concentrating on the street VSA is something you should never need. Like ABS, seatbelts, and airbags. When I'm driving my car I don't ever intend to experience the benefits of any of these.

Unfortunately I drive in a world where cars have radios, pockets have cell phones, streets have crazies, and the fun roads have gravel patches and animals. For that reason I like my VSA, airbags, seatbelts and ABS.

If your S2000 is purely a driving machine then you have never activated your cruise control or turned on your radio. If you have done either of those things then your car is dual purpose at best.

FWIW I don't have the driving experience that some on here have, just 11 years for me. But I can honestly say that on the street I have never activated the ABS or VSA in my S2000. I have also never set off an airbag or tested a seatbelt in any car.

 

My opinion... is VSA needed? no, and yes, it really depends...

A good driver does not NEED it as he/she will avoid situations that require it and be able to recover if they fail to avoid it. However will a good driver benefit from it? possibly. there are situation (albeit extremely rare) where even a good driver can get into trouble. so for a good driver it is useful but not necessary. It should never be relied on.

A bad driver or very inexperienced driver all but needs it on a car like this as it handles different than most cars and it is easier to get into trouble.

My advice, dont turn down a killer deal because it doesnt have VSA and don't jump on a bad deal just because it does. Decide from your driving experience and record how much of a benefit it is and how much extra you are willing to pay for it and go from there.

I drive an '01 AP1, which is one of the most tail happy s2k's. I drive it in heavy rain all the time even with the S-02's which everyone seems to think are death traps in the wet... I am yet to have an issue I don't find the tires all bad in the rain at all even through standing water.

so in conclusion, the most important aspect of safety is a good driver driving carefully... VSA can help but it is not the be all end all.

 

^^^

Very well said.

 

i'm with Ckit on this one. you don't need it, but if it's a DD, it's a great safety feature, just like airbags and seatbelts.

VSA saved my car once--my brother asked me if he could drive it (a few miles). he was amazed at how well it could switch left and right, so he jerked it hard left then right--and a fair bit too hard. the electronic nanny was what kept him from nailing the curb in my fairly new car. and now i can laugh about it instead of have a sore spot.

also, i have a wife. taking her to dinner, it's better to not have to worry. we have winter here in utah, and though i'm always on new snow tires, it's easier to be confident with VSA. and i cannot ever brake the front right wheel only to counter oversteer, no matter how good a driver i am. VSA will, should it ever need to.

for a weekend only / track / etc toy car, it's not worth much. for a DD, it's a nice safety feature. but what it's worth to you in dollars is a personal thing, so take it for what it's worth.

 

I drove our old S2000 on weekends for around 2 years and neither my Dad nor I ever really had a problem with the 2002.

But there is always that "what if" scenario that has me worried. Especially if someone were to pull out on me on the highway, etc.

If any has a Laguna Blue for sale near Tri-State...please! Let me know!