Group Drive Liability Issue
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I'll jump in here and take a stab at this, but first, a typical lawyer disclaimer:
**Although I am an attorney, I am not YOUR attorney. My reply here is based on my thoughts on a hypothetical question in a generic state, I have made no attempt to research the law, or the applicability of any statutes to any state for this kind of situation.**
and now back to our show....
The first thing I would tell you is that if you get sued, its almost always for one reason, money. If you were anywhere near the accident and are (1) personally wealthy or (2) have a decent insurance policy, you are going to get sued. If you have neither (1) or (2), you probably won't as you are what is known as "judgement proof" that is, suing you isn't worth the expense of what the plaintiff has to expend to reduce the claim to a judgement.
Now to a specific question. cthree says that "It is my understanding that if a group of people make arrangements to spontaneously meet and particiapate in a group activity that the only one liable for damages caused as a reult would be the participant responsible......."
I think that this statement really answers his own question. If you "make arrangements" to meet, can it really be spontaneous? For example, the local club posts an open invitation to meet for a group drive on a particular date, at a particular time, in a particular place. This is anything but spontaneous. You are organizing a group of people to go out and drive their cars on public roads. In all liklihood, if there is an accident, someone is at least going to look for your policy limits.
The reasoning goes like this (cthree, I am just using you as an example): cthree organizes 10 people to go for a drive. He knows 5 of them and doesn't know (other than through the board) the other five. Of the 5 he knows, 2 of them have at least 2 speeding tickets in the last 6 months and a third has a supercharger that he loves to show off, even though he hasn't had a recent speeding ticket, cthree knows that he loves to hit triple digit numbers on long straights. Of the 5 he doesn't know, turns out 2 of them are also habitually getting caught for speeding and a third is a closet alchoholic that thinks open air driving isn't nearly as much fun without a frosty one.
So now that we have our group in place lets see what happens when we go for the drive: Cthree leads off with everyone else following. One of our habitual speeders picks up the pace and passes cthree, inciting the supercharged car to punch it on a long straightaway, unfortunately, he underestimate the speed of the other cars and is unable to get back into his lane before the upcoming curve. A minivan is coming the other way with a mom and two kids. The supercharged car hits the minivan and creating a big mess, but miraculously not killing anyone. Everyone, with the exception of our closet alcholic, slows down and stops, immmediately rushing to the aid of our victims. Our closet alcholic, it turns out, dropped his frosty beverage on the passengers floorboard and is trying to grab it during all of the above events. He looks up just in time to see the line of cars stopped in the right hand lane (but doesn't see the cause of the accident). Realizing that he can't stayin the right lane, he jerks the steering wheel left, sails into our minivan and kills four people (regrettably not including himself).
Ok, so who gets sued? Clearly the driver of the supercharged car is going to get a complaint, so will the drunk. What about everyone else? Any plaintiff's lawyer worth his salt will sue everyone and, my experience says that the insurance company's will settle for something approaching the insurance limts for just about everyone.
Is Cthree liable for doing nothing more than organizing the event? Maybe, maybe not, but here is how the argument will go:
Cthree set up a group of 10 people to drive their 240hp sports cars on a group drive. He knew five of them and also knew that at least three of them were prone to excessive speed. He also should have known that putting them in this situation would encourage their bad habits. By encouraging their bad habits, he was negligent in putting this group together, because he knew or should have known what might happen. Further, and perhaps even more inexcusable, was the 5 drivers he didn't know. He is putting together a group of people to drive high performance 2000lbs+ machines at speeds @ 60-70mph and he doesn't have a clue as to who is driving. Turns out that there was a drunk in the group who ended up killing four people. Shouldn't he have at least asked some questions, or wouldn't a person paying attention have noticed the cooler full of beer on the passenger's seat? Again, the argument is that you put this together, so you had at least some responsibility to organize a safe event.
I am not suggesting that you would lose. There are some good defenses available, I am just giving you the theory on which you would get sued.
To address Jschmidt's question re: fees. Some states have different liability standards where a fee is charged unless certain disclaimers are made. Additionally, in the above scenario, the plaintiff's lawyer is going to argue that "this guy was making a profit and he couldn't even be bothered to check out who his driver's were?" Just makes it look worse.
Hope that this diatribe help to clarify some of the issues. Its not cut and dry, but I think that the bottom line is that yes, there is some potential liability for a person organizing a driving event.
**Although I am an attorney, I am not YOUR attorney. My reply here is based on my thoughts on a hypothetical question in a generic state, I have made no attempt to research the law, or the applicability of any statutes to any state for this kind of situation.**
and now back to our show....
The first thing I would tell you is that if you get sued, its almost always for one reason, money. If you were anywhere near the accident and are (1) personally wealthy or (2) have a decent insurance policy, you are going to get sued. If you have neither (1) or (2), you probably won't as you are what is known as "judgement proof" that is, suing you isn't worth the expense of what the plaintiff has to expend to reduce the claim to a judgement.
Now to a specific question. cthree says that "It is my understanding that if a group of people make arrangements to spontaneously meet and particiapate in a group activity that the only one liable for damages caused as a reult would be the participant responsible......."
I think that this statement really answers his own question. If you "make arrangements" to meet, can it really be spontaneous? For example, the local club posts an open invitation to meet for a group drive on a particular date, at a particular time, in a particular place. This is anything but spontaneous. You are organizing a group of people to go out and drive their cars on public roads. In all liklihood, if there is an accident, someone is at least going to look for your policy limits.
The reasoning goes like this (cthree, I am just using you as an example): cthree organizes 10 people to go for a drive. He knows 5 of them and doesn't know (other than through the board) the other five. Of the 5 he knows, 2 of them have at least 2 speeding tickets in the last 6 months and a third has a supercharger that he loves to show off, even though he hasn't had a recent speeding ticket, cthree knows that he loves to hit triple digit numbers on long straights. Of the 5 he doesn't know, turns out 2 of them are also habitually getting caught for speeding and a third is a closet alchoholic that thinks open air driving isn't nearly as much fun without a frosty one.
So now that we have our group in place lets see what happens when we go for the drive: Cthree leads off with everyone else following. One of our habitual speeders picks up the pace and passes cthree, inciting the supercharged car to punch it on a long straightaway, unfortunately, he underestimate the speed of the other cars and is unable to get back into his lane before the upcoming curve. A minivan is coming the other way with a mom and two kids. The supercharged car hits the minivan and creating a big mess, but miraculously not killing anyone. Everyone, with the exception of our closet alcholic, slows down and stops, immmediately rushing to the aid of our victims. Our closet alcholic, it turns out, dropped his frosty beverage on the passengers floorboard and is trying to grab it during all of the above events. He looks up just in time to see the line of cars stopped in the right hand lane (but doesn't see the cause of the accident). Realizing that he can't stayin the right lane, he jerks the steering wheel left, sails into our minivan and kills four people (regrettably not including himself).
Ok, so who gets sued? Clearly the driver of the supercharged car is going to get a complaint, so will the drunk. What about everyone else? Any plaintiff's lawyer worth his salt will sue everyone and, my experience says that the insurance company's will settle for something approaching the insurance limts for just about everyone.
Is Cthree liable for doing nothing more than organizing the event? Maybe, maybe not, but here is how the argument will go:
Cthree set up a group of 10 people to drive their 240hp sports cars on a group drive. He knew five of them and also knew that at least three of them were prone to excessive speed. He also should have known that putting them in this situation would encourage their bad habits. By encouraging their bad habits, he was negligent in putting this group together, because he knew or should have known what might happen. Further, and perhaps even more inexcusable, was the 5 drivers he didn't know. He is putting together a group of people to drive high performance 2000lbs+ machines at speeds @ 60-70mph and he doesn't have a clue as to who is driving. Turns out that there was a drunk in the group who ended up killing four people. Shouldn't he have at least asked some questions, or wouldn't a person paying attention have noticed the cooler full of beer on the passenger's seat? Again, the argument is that you put this together, so you had at least some responsibility to organize a safe event.
I am not suggesting that you would lose. There are some good defenses available, I am just giving you the theory on which you would get sued.
To address Jschmidt's question re: fees. Some states have different liability standards where a fee is charged unless certain disclaimers are made. Additionally, in the above scenario, the plaintiff's lawyer is going to argue that "this guy was making a profit and he couldn't even be bothered to check out who his driver's were?" Just makes it look worse.
Hope that this diatribe help to clarify some of the issues. Its not cut and dry, but I think that the bottom line is that yes, there is some potential liability for a person organizing a driving event.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Fairfield County
Greg here for Marj, and same caveats, that while I am an attorney I do not represent you, and strongly suggest that you consult an attorney in your local area for "legal advise". Having given the mandatory warnings so no one sues me, lets think about a couple of issues in the hypothetical.
1. All clubs I know of, whether insured or not, use a General Release/waiver of claims as their first line of defense. In this document a person agrees to assume the risks of participating, acknowledges that there are dangers, releases claims againt the organization and/or organizers, and agrees to indemnify you if you are sued by a third party, as a result of his or her actions. So, answer one is have a release drawn up, and make sure that everyone, drivers and passengers have signed it.
2. Liability is a creature of negligence, i.e. you failed to act in a manner that was safe and prudent. The hard one here is where you lead the group, you elect to break the law by driving above the speed limit (and who actually drives below the speed limit), and someone is hurt. Now, you did not force the person to drive over the limit, but your release should expressly provide that each person is responsible for driving at a safe speed, and advising them to avoid driving too fast, and that the group will gladly wait up for anyone who wishes to slow down. There is also a well known problem where the car in back needs to drive faster to keep up with cars in the front, due to the accordian nature of a group. When I have run groups, I always have a chase car in the back, and both myself in the front, and the chase in the back, have a two way radio. If the group is getting stretched out, or there are indications that people in back are having trouble, I can slow down before there is a problem. Also, consider handing out maps, where people drive independently, not as a group. If they happen to follow you, that is their choice.
3. For my little club we went out and incorporated. I do not see this as essential, but it does give us one more level of protection.
4. If you can run under the umbrella of an organizations insurance, seems like a great idea to me.
5. As to when a group is liable, most states refer to this area as "unincorporated associations". A trip to your local law library is a good place to do some reading. Nearly all courts have law libraries, and most are open to the public if you ask nicely. Many law librarians will also assist you to find materials. This is not suggest you should be your own attorney, but it does give you a chance to do some reading on the topic.
6. Now, taking off my legal hat, real world. I have run with a group of friends for motorcycle rides for many years. When we run with close friends, we do not use waivers. If we run an "organized event" where people not known to us are coming, then we do. Bottom line is that a group of close friends who drive together all the time, know each other's style, and have shown themselves to have enough common sense to drive within their own limits, not those of the person in front of you.
7. To continue with the real world, one must think about why injuries occur in the first place. I have run dozens of automotive and motorcycle events, and while we have never had a serious injury, the near misses were innevitably caused by mixing people with very different skill levels. What I consider to be one hand on the wheel and relaxing is probably beyond the outer limits of many S2000 owners. And, that makes me the problem. As, it is very easy for me to miss that a pace that I feel is relaxed can be dangerous to someone who jumps on the brakes when they panic coming into a corner. And, whereas if something changes, I steer around it, someone else jumps on the brakes and drives right into the rock that suddenly appeared in the road. So, in a group event, how do you allow the people with formal driving skills to have some fun, while not endangering people who are perfectly safe at moderate speeds, but who simply have no experience with higher speeds. Obviously, one can drive slowly, and that is not a bad start. But, sooner or later the pace will come up a little, and if the vehicles are not bunched up, it gives everyone more options. Radio's also give the lead car notice that someone is running wide on corners, before disaster occurs. Watch intersections, the heard instinct gets people, where they jump in front of another car to avoid being left behind. People have to understand that you will wait up, and the chase car with the radio in back assures that no one is left behind. If people keep their spacing, don't jump intersections and realize that the event is not a race, chances are you will not have a problem. Use waivers, common sense and have fun. No reason for a group drive to be any more dangerous than any other drive, if everyone keeps their head.
1. All clubs I know of, whether insured or not, use a General Release/waiver of claims as their first line of defense. In this document a person agrees to assume the risks of participating, acknowledges that there are dangers, releases claims againt the organization and/or organizers, and agrees to indemnify you if you are sued by a third party, as a result of his or her actions. So, answer one is have a release drawn up, and make sure that everyone, drivers and passengers have signed it.
2. Liability is a creature of negligence, i.e. you failed to act in a manner that was safe and prudent. The hard one here is where you lead the group, you elect to break the law by driving above the speed limit (and who actually drives below the speed limit), and someone is hurt. Now, you did not force the person to drive over the limit, but your release should expressly provide that each person is responsible for driving at a safe speed, and advising them to avoid driving too fast, and that the group will gladly wait up for anyone who wishes to slow down. There is also a well known problem where the car in back needs to drive faster to keep up with cars in the front, due to the accordian nature of a group. When I have run groups, I always have a chase car in the back, and both myself in the front, and the chase in the back, have a two way radio. If the group is getting stretched out, or there are indications that people in back are having trouble, I can slow down before there is a problem. Also, consider handing out maps, where people drive independently, not as a group. If they happen to follow you, that is their choice.
3. For my little club we went out and incorporated. I do not see this as essential, but it does give us one more level of protection.
4. If you can run under the umbrella of an organizations insurance, seems like a great idea to me.
5. As to when a group is liable, most states refer to this area as "unincorporated associations". A trip to your local law library is a good place to do some reading. Nearly all courts have law libraries, and most are open to the public if you ask nicely. Many law librarians will also assist you to find materials. This is not suggest you should be your own attorney, but it does give you a chance to do some reading on the topic.
6. Now, taking off my legal hat, real world. I have run with a group of friends for motorcycle rides for many years. When we run with close friends, we do not use waivers. If we run an "organized event" where people not known to us are coming, then we do. Bottom line is that a group of close friends who drive together all the time, know each other's style, and have shown themselves to have enough common sense to drive within their own limits, not those of the person in front of you.
7. To continue with the real world, one must think about why injuries occur in the first place. I have run dozens of automotive and motorcycle events, and while we have never had a serious injury, the near misses were innevitably caused by mixing people with very different skill levels. What I consider to be one hand on the wheel and relaxing is probably beyond the outer limits of many S2000 owners. And, that makes me the problem. As, it is very easy for me to miss that a pace that I feel is relaxed can be dangerous to someone who jumps on the brakes when they panic coming into a corner. And, whereas if something changes, I steer around it, someone else jumps on the brakes and drives right into the rock that suddenly appeared in the road. So, in a group event, how do you allow the people with formal driving skills to have some fun, while not endangering people who are perfectly safe at moderate speeds, but who simply have no experience with higher speeds. Obviously, one can drive slowly, and that is not a bad start. But, sooner or later the pace will come up a little, and if the vehicles are not bunched up, it gives everyone more options. Radio's also give the lead car notice that someone is running wide on corners, before disaster occurs. Watch intersections, the heard instinct gets people, where they jump in front of another car to avoid being left behind. People have to understand that you will wait up, and the chase car with the radio in back assures that no one is left behind. If people keep their spacing, don't jump intersections and realize that the event is not a race, chances are you will not have a problem. Use waivers, common sense and have fun. No reason for a group drive to be any more dangerous than any other drive, if everyone keeps their head.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Palo Alto
Thanks for Itsjustme and Marj's input. 
I think it would be a while before a formal local club insures our group drives. But I still want to have a drive in Feb. So I am thinking if it is good enough to print those claim waivers and have everyone (including passengers) sign them before the drive. Will doing this completely waive the organizer and other participants the responsibility? If not completely, to what extent can it help?
Thanks a bunch.
I think it would be a while before a formal local club insures our group drives. But I still want to have a drive in Feb. So I am thinking if it is good enough to print those claim waivers and have everyone (including passengers) sign them before the drive. Will doing this completely waive the organizer and other participants the responsibility? If not completely, to what extent can it help?
Thanks a bunch.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: On the lakefront...
Good input there, itsjustme and Marj (Greg)...I think people are beginning to see that things, especially in this highly litigious society, that nothing is easy and that just about no matter what, you always have liability...lawyers go after the deepest pockets and whatever else they can get along the way. (no offense intended to the fine attorneys of this forum)
umvue and anyone else out there thinking of organizing meets, drives, etc...the S2KCA's liability policy COVERS this kind of thing...and that's precisely why WE acquired the policy, so others could tap into it. We have all the liability forms and waivers. All you need to do is make the event (by asking us and we always say yes) an S2KCA-sponsored one, have everyone sign the waiver and blammo...your event is covered!
Setting up the corporation and getting the insurance policy is done for several reasons, but the most important one for you, or anyone else considering local or regional organizations, is that you don't have to go through the whole incorporation/insurance process AGAIN. Trust me, it's not cheap, nor is it fun. All the adminstrative paper pushing has been DONE already and tapping into that is easy. I have said many times that I think the one million dollar policy that our corporation carries is a great benefit to anyone who wants to use it. I hope this begins to sink in...so I'll say it one more time. ALL the administrative stuff (setting up the corporation, getting the insurance, having a framework for regional chapters) has been DONE. D O N E. It would be superfluous to reinvent the wheel, re-incorporate, acquire insurance, etc...but if someone wants to, that's OK with us and we wouldn't think about preventing someone from doing so...but I don't understand why someone would want to.
Anyway, let us know if you want to tap in to what we have spent countless hours on creating...that's what it's there for...
Thanks
umvue and anyone else out there thinking of organizing meets, drives, etc...the S2KCA's liability policy COVERS this kind of thing...and that's precisely why WE acquired the policy, so others could tap into it. We have all the liability forms and waivers. All you need to do is make the event (by asking us and we always say yes) an S2KCA-sponsored one, have everyone sign the waiver and blammo...your event is covered!
Setting up the corporation and getting the insurance policy is done for several reasons, but the most important one for you, or anyone else considering local or regional organizations, is that you don't have to go through the whole incorporation/insurance process AGAIN. Trust me, it's not cheap, nor is it fun. All the adminstrative paper pushing has been DONE already and tapping into that is easy. I have said many times that I think the one million dollar policy that our corporation carries is a great benefit to anyone who wants to use it. I hope this begins to sink in...so I'll say it one more time. ALL the administrative stuff (setting up the corporation, getting the insurance, having a framework for regional chapters) has been DONE. D O N E. It would be superfluous to reinvent the wheel, re-incorporate, acquire insurance, etc...but if someone wants to, that's OK with us and we wouldn't think about preventing someone from doing so...but I don't understand why someone would want to.
Anyway, let us know if you want to tap in to what we have spent countless hours on creating...that's what it's there for...
Thanks
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From: Houston
[QUOTE]Originally posted by itsjustme
[B]...Of the 5 he knows, 2 of them have at least 2 speeding tickets in the last 6 months and a third has a supercharger that he loves to show off, even though he hasn't had
[B]...Of the 5 he knows, 2 of them have at least 2 speeding tickets in the last 6 months and a third has a supercharger that he loves to show off, even though he hasn't had
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I'll post one follow up to this just to try and make sure I have covered all of the bases. Although I have not seen a copy of the insurance policy obtained by s2kca, I would note that waivers, etc., do not cover folks involved in an accident that were not participating in an event (e.g. the minivan in my above example). Further, although waivers are necessary and good to have, please understand that one of my jobs, on a daily basis, is to get around them (and often it is fairly easy to do). For example, I was recently skiing in Tahoe and when I put my lift ticket on, I got a kick out of reading the waiver on the back. It went something like this: "By accepting this lift ticket, you are hereby waiving any and all rights to bring a lawsuit for any and all injuries or other damages you may suffer as the result of being on our property, whether or not it is the result of defects in our property or equipment or negligence whether intentional or reckless of our staff or employees" Suffice it to say that this "waiver" wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. This is an extreme example, but it makes a valid point: to go back to my earlier example, lets say that cthree had all of the drivers sign the waiver and our friend the drunk signs it with one hand while drinking a beer with the other. The waiver goes out the window because cthree knew that there were greater than normal risks. Again, just examples, but this is what a "good" lawyer is going to argue to get at a deep pocket if there is one. The good thing here is that you have a $1MM insurance policy backing you up (in addition to whatever insurance you carry personally). Although I might ask gregstevens whether that $1MM covers each involved individual to that amount, or is that a "per event" policy? It makes a big difference in terms of the level of comfort that policy might give you.
Final point. Sometimes accidents happen. Use your head, speak up if there is a problem or someone is behaving recklessly. Be smart. Yes, sometimes the worst does happen, but its not terribly likely. Much more likely that you will be hit by a car walking out your front door. Don't let this discussion keep you from enjoying your car, I am pointing out the possibilities, not the probabilities.
Thanks and happy driving.
Final point. Sometimes accidents happen. Use your head, speak up if there is a problem or someone is behaving recklessly. Be smart. Yes, sometimes the worst does happen, but its not terribly likely. Much more likely that you will be hit by a car walking out your front door. Don't let this discussion keep you from enjoying your car, I am pointing out the possibilities, not the probabilities.
Thanks and happy driving.
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From: Fairfield County
One of the motorcycle list serves I subscribe to put together a ride over the summer. 25+ bikes showed up, and one bike went down at ~100mph on a public road. Amazingly, the rider suffered minimal injuries. The event, however, is a good example of a group ride gone terribly wrong.
The facts could just as easily have happened at a S2000 event. The vehicles were on a nice road, when they got "stuck" behind two slow vehicles. The lead bike decides he has room to pass, and some of the bikes behind him decide to follow him around. Like an S2000, the bikes had the ability to quickly accelerated to 100mph, and the lead bike applied his brakes for the next corner and rode right through. One of the riders who had just bought the bike, however, panicked that the lead bike was stopping so fast and locked up his rear brakes and then tried to turn with the brakes on. The bike slid the rear end and high sided him into a freshly plowed farm field. Had he lifted off the brakes, he would have made it, but at still probably close to 100mph he narrowly escaped a certain death.
So, who is liable. The lead bike who "induced" him to follow at two times the legal speed limit, or the rider who failed to recognize his own limits and just blindly followed a faster and or more foolish rider. I would like to think that legally the answer is the latter, but I am not convinced that a Jury would agree. The reality is that as a group leader if you do something really foolish, there is not only legal danger, but also the reality of a life very nearly lost. And, the futher the leader strays from the norm, the greater that danger becomes.
What are the lessons:
1. Have a General Release
2. Make sure people understand that you will wait for them, so they do not have to do silly things to keep up.
3. Think about the people behind you, and what you can do to make it safe for them.
4. Know the skills of the people in your group, and if you have a few slow pokes, make a separate group for them, or just accept that it is a slow ride.
5. Run mini-driving programs in empty parking lots so people can practice cornering at the limit, and what happens when one suddenly lifts off the throttle or jabs the brakes (Dial 1-800-I'm Spinning).
6. Put together group participation with area high performance driving or race schools. Most major areas have shools, Skip Barber, Jim Russell, Bondurant.......
PS- Saw a wrecked Miata last week. What a shame. Driver saw a deer, jammed on the brakes, and with the ABS on tried to steer. ABS is good stuff, but it does not stop the car from unloading the weight from the rear end, and she spun a brand new british racing green miata into a large tree backwards. On the street, especially in a car that turns in as fast as an S2000, get off the brakes before you turn in. If we could get this one message out, we could probably stop half of all crashes.
Run Safe,
Greg, the passenger in Marj' S2000
when not driving my modified BMW 328Ci
or a Suzuki 1200S
The facts could just as easily have happened at a S2000 event. The vehicles were on a nice road, when they got "stuck" behind two slow vehicles. The lead bike decides he has room to pass, and some of the bikes behind him decide to follow him around. Like an S2000, the bikes had the ability to quickly accelerated to 100mph, and the lead bike applied his brakes for the next corner and rode right through. One of the riders who had just bought the bike, however, panicked that the lead bike was stopping so fast and locked up his rear brakes and then tried to turn with the brakes on. The bike slid the rear end and high sided him into a freshly plowed farm field. Had he lifted off the brakes, he would have made it, but at still probably close to 100mph he narrowly escaped a certain death.
So, who is liable. The lead bike who "induced" him to follow at two times the legal speed limit, or the rider who failed to recognize his own limits and just blindly followed a faster and or more foolish rider. I would like to think that legally the answer is the latter, but I am not convinced that a Jury would agree. The reality is that as a group leader if you do something really foolish, there is not only legal danger, but also the reality of a life very nearly lost. And, the futher the leader strays from the norm, the greater that danger becomes.
What are the lessons:
1. Have a General Release
2. Make sure people understand that you will wait for them, so they do not have to do silly things to keep up.
3. Think about the people behind you, and what you can do to make it safe for them.
4. Know the skills of the people in your group, and if you have a few slow pokes, make a separate group for them, or just accept that it is a slow ride.
5. Run mini-driving programs in empty parking lots so people can practice cornering at the limit, and what happens when one suddenly lifts off the throttle or jabs the brakes (Dial 1-800-I'm Spinning).
6. Put together group participation with area high performance driving or race schools. Most major areas have shools, Skip Barber, Jim Russell, Bondurant.......
PS- Saw a wrecked Miata last week. What a shame. Driver saw a deer, jammed on the brakes, and with the ABS on tried to steer. ABS is good stuff, but it does not stop the car from unloading the weight from the rear end, and she spun a brand new british racing green miata into a large tree backwards. On the street, especially in a car that turns in as fast as an S2000, get off the brakes before you turn in. If we could get this one message out, we could probably stop half of all crashes.
Run Safe,
Greg, the passenger in Marj' S2000
when not driving my modified BMW 328Ci
or a Suzuki 1200S