We use K&K Insurance to cover our autox club activities. I spoke to them last year about what is and isn't covered by our insurance waiver. I expect that S2KCA is using the same insurance and waivers, so what they told me applies the same.

Here is my take about an incident at an autox (remember, IANAL)...

[QUOTE]
The waiver we all sign at the beginning of the day says that we all agree to not sue another competitor/worker/etc.

 

Despite all the potential legal issues, I still want to push forward the drives. However, I'd add something to improve them.

1. Have everyone including passengers sign a claim waiver. This should protect any of us from suing each other.
2. Divided into 2 groups: "spirited" group for expert drivers, "cruise" group for novices
3. Have a lead car and a chase car in each group. Each of them has a pair of two-way radios.
4. Had a brief talk before each drive to warn people about the potential hazards.

Can you guys think of anything else I can add?

Thanks

 

Great information in this thread !!!!

Thanks to the lawyers in the group, for the incite, and to gregstevens, for the offer to be covered under the S2KCA umbrella. I organized an event last fall without any waivers or coverage. Luckily, no incidents.

I am planning something for this spring, and will definately be in touch to 'leverage' the waivers and policy.

This sue-happy world can make someone quite paranoid.

 

Some suggestions on your ideas...

1. Good idea. Maybe ask some of our member lawyers or event organizers for a "good" waiver - something that has a snowball's chance in hell of standing up in court. And don't forget to have passengers sign too, as someone pointed out.
2. If you have a fair number of cars (more than, say, 10) go for 3 groups - slow pokes (not a bad thing, some people just want to enjoy the scenery), novice drivers who want to go quick but not "push it", and experienced drivers who want to drive stupid-fast. Give the experienced drivers a map and let them on their own...
3. Definately have lead/chase cars. Given the relative low cost of 2-way radios (i.e. Motorola talkabouts) it would not hurt for everyone to have one - just define what they should be used for. Good examples of talk are "bicyclists on your right" or "sharp turn coming up, slow down a bit". Try to avoid the "oooh, look at that view" stuff as it tends to distract drivers, especially those who are a ways back in the pack and may not see what you're seeing for some time. Lead/chase cars with a passenger are even better - they can talk without removing concentration from driving.
4. This is a good time to remind everyone that group drives/events are FOR FUN, not to prove who has the biggest penis (proverbially speaking for the women in attendance). Everyone should know their level of driving ability, and stick with it - nobody will be impressed if you trash your car trying to "prove yourself".

Good luck on your events.

 

Solo2racer

There is no charge for "tours" for insurance. By tours, I mean drives on public roads.

The fee event for autox type events is about $170 and that is covered by the event.

The fee for a racetrack rental is quite a bit more.

Hope that helps.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by meat
[B]Solo2racer

There is no charge for "tours" for insurance.

 

No, we are not affiliated in any way shape or form with the SCCA. The policy that meat is referring to is our own corporate insurance policy.

 

Great suggestions:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WestSideBilly
[B]

Some suggestions on your ideas...

1. Good idea.

 

Couple of Questions and some comments with my legal hat back on. Just remember, that this is not a "legal opinion", but merely some observations on general principles. Consult your lawyer before relying on anything that you might have read here.

This one was asked above, but I will rephrase it as it seems to be the really important question. How does one assure that their drive is official i.e. covered by the insurance. If two S2000 owners who are on this board just happen to be out for a sunday drive, are they an event, or is there some procedure that must be followed. Couple of us from the NY Metro Board got together at Bear Mountain State Park last year and went for a drive. We had no permission from the club, and just thought it up and agreed to it on the list. Are we an event. I assume the answer is no, and wondered what one had to do to make sure they came within the requirements of the insurance policy. Also, does the club policy provide for imdemnification against my personal automotive or homeowner's insurance policy. I bet it does.

As to releases, it is always amusing when you have two attorneys, and one does plaintiff's work and the other does defense. As the defense guy, my experience is that waivers which people actually sign, which are not patently outrageous, tend to hold up in court. Things which are printed on the back of tickets have a lower probability of being upheld. Which by the way is just what "itsjust me" said, so actually we agree, a scary thought with two lawyers.

The waiver is a contract. In consideration of being allowed to participate in the event, you pay "Consideration" the giving up of legal rights that you would otherwise have. A contract requires a "meeting of the minds" i.e. that both parties entered into a bargain, and freely agreed to terms. As to whether a Waiver will stand up in Court, if one thinks about it as a contract, than a well drafted one is just as valid as any other contract. "Its just me" refers to the pre-printed ticket types getting pierced, to which I reply, why not , they are not real contracts, just unilateral statements. Bottom line, is that for a car club event a waiver is a very good idea.

I left private practice to do corporate counsel work, so I don't take on any private matters. So regret that I cannot draft one for you. I have done some these in the past, however, and if you do get a lawyer to undertake the job, I would be glad to extend professional courtesy to him or her to take a look at the document. If so, she or he can reach me directly at sweeptime@netscape.net.

In general a club release would have three or four parts. We disclose the dangers of participation, we prohibit reckless activity, and we waive legal claims, in consideration of being allowed to participate in the current and/or future events. The document is then signed and dated by the participant and a club official. While not legally required, we require that the participant must sign the document in the presence of the club official. We have a new one signed for each event, even though the document refers to current and future events. The participant also has to provide the club official with a copy of their driver's license, and of their automotive insurance policy. The purpose of this is to show in a court that the Club has made a reasonable effort to assure that participants are qualified to drive a car. Generally insurance policies do not cover illegal acts, and if you as a club allowed a person who has 10 DWI's and a suspended license to drive drunk during your event, kiss the insurance and the waiver good by. You cannot forsee every problem, but at least you have made a prudent attempt to assure that participants have been approved by the State to drive an automobile. The final and fourth part is a bit of a legal call, whether to have an indemnification clause. I will leave that to whatever counsel you choose, as it has insurance implications.

Finally, as to the question about whether a person is responsible for actions of other people in a group, simply stated it depends in most jurisdictions on whether you exercise "supervision and control" over the group. If you do, then you may be held to have a duty to do so in a reasonable and prudent fashion. This area of the law is a real mess, and that is why we have juries. If I am going out to dinner, and a friend says his wife and him will follow, I do not insist that they both sign a legal contract to indemnify me if they crash. In the latter case, the law expects them to maintain control of their vehicle. This is the general rule, and it is where you do something to assume control of the conduct that generally speaking liability attaches.

Greg, the passenger in Marj's S2000
Old Racer Wisdom: If you spin, both feet in, when in doubt, both feet out.

 

Umm.. I have a question about claim waiver. If people signed claim waiver and then they tailgate the S2000 in the front at his fault, does the claim waiver deny the innocent front runner to ask the at fault driver's insurance company to pay liability?