S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

Heel Toeing

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Old Mar 28, 2012 | 03:17 PM
  #31  
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I usually practice heel-toe coming off the freeway and occasionally when approaching stoplights.
I do it to save my tranny from excess wear.


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Old Mar 29, 2012 | 03:32 PM
  #32  
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Kudos to those who heel & toe while daily driving (even at a relaxed pace) with perfect precision each time.

I do rev match, but I do not heel & toe. I find it easy to heel & toe while driving at a fast pace, with the benefits of saving transmission wear and smooth handling at speed. But I realized that it'd take me too long to do it with decent precision when driving at a relaxed pace. To learn it would probably wear down the transmission more than the gain in future.

I used to double clutch, but I just stopped doing that as well. I don't believe the benefits are worth the effort as we have multiple syncros in the first and second gears.

One thing I like about the 370Z is that it does all this stuff for you, better than any of us, even downshifting from second to first gear... The shifter on the Z is way too sloppy compared to ours, but I wish we had that feature.
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Old Mar 29, 2012 | 07:50 PM
  #33  
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I think whoever designed the interior of the S was thoughtful enough to put a black rubber strip close to the throttle so your foot doesn't wear out the carpet when you do it. That's what I'm guessing it's for anyway, cause why else would they have it there?

I would say don't be afraid to try it, but bear in mind that it doesn't mean you're supposed to jam your foot downward at both pedals. I'm guessing that's the reason why the OP and some posters are saying they're hitting the brakes too hard. The trick is to begin braking BEFORE you stab the throttle. That way you've already judged exactly how much pressure you need on the brake so that stabbing the throttle would be the easy part.
If you have big feet (I'm okay at 10.5, but I sometimes wear boots) the trick is to angle your foot before you start braking so that you won't have to swing the heel over when it's time to blip the throttle. That way your heel won't dig into the carpet as much.

But if you find this too cumbersome, there is another method which I've read some racing drivers use. For the S, this requires pedal extenders (Razo makes a good set where the extender for the throttle has an adjustable flap that swings out so your heel can reach it more easily). This will make the brake and gas pedals much closer to each other so that you're not really heel-toeing at all, but blipping the throttle by rolling your ankle so the right side of your foot is touching the pedal. I did this on my previous car, a twin turbo 300zx. It was so easy that it felt no dumb NOT to do it. However, don't wear skater shoes while driving cause you could find yourself stepping on the gas by mistake when you're coasting towards a stoplight. That happened once in a blue moon...
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Old Mar 30, 2012 | 04:32 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Spectre00
But if you find this too cumbersome, there is another method which I've read some racing drivers use. For the S, this requires pedal extenders (Razo makes a good set where the extender for the throttle has an adjustable flap that swings out so your heel can reach it more easily). This will make the brake and gas pedals much closer to each other so that you're not really heel-toeing at all, but blipping the throttle by rolling your ankle so the right side of your foot is touching the pedal.
Pedal extenders aren't required. This is how I (and others -- see posts in this very thread) heel-toe in the S.

Originally Posted by hicabi
One thing I like about the 370Z is that it does all this stuff for you, better than any of us, even downshifting from second to first gear...
I'd have to try it but it sounds like another layer of detachment IMO.
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Old Mar 30, 2012 | 05:34 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by takeshi
Originally Posted by hicabi' timestamp='1333063973' post='21557687
One thing I like about the 370Z is that it does all this stuff for you, better than any of us, even downshifting from second to first gear...
I'd have to try it but it sounds like another layer of detachment IMO.
i would never use the rev match feature on the z (i think it can be turned on and off). and downshifting to 2nd to 1st is kinda hard, but you don't need it for daily driving anyways
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Old Mar 30, 2012 | 06:57 AM
  #36  
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Seems like a lot of 'over thinking' going on here. Heel/toeing is sort of a misnomer for some as rarely, especially in our car, are you actually using your heel on the throttle and toe on the brake. To do that for me would be just too much work and would take the intuitiveness out of the equation. You have to be able to do it comfortably with your feet in 'your' normal driving position. If you have to re-position your foot each time you H/T it's not going to happen as a matter of course. I have big feet which is really helpful in this car, in fact if I drive with my narrow driving shoes it makes it harder to H/T for me. I just put my heel very close to the bottom of the throttle but sort of biased toward the brake pedal and when braking I just rotate the top of my foot over to the brake pedal so the ball of the foot is on the brake pedal but my heel,or side of my foot, is still on the throttle. You can brake as lightly or as hard as needed this way and still roll the side of your foot onto the throttle for the blip. The pedals will be no where near even with each other but since your heel is at the bottom of the throttle it stays there while the top of your foot lifts to meet the brake pedal, you can roll the right side of your foot onto the throttle at any time with any amount of braking pressure. It takes some practice but once your feet are always in a position to take advantage of the pedals you wont have to think about that part of it anymore. I rev match ALWAYS, don't need to but once you start doing it it's not like 'oh, I think I'll rev match this shift' you just do it always and it becomes part of your driving technique to the point it's an integral part of you shifting routine.
Or just forget about it and drive the damn car
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Old Mar 30, 2012 | 12:10 PM
  #37  
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just keep practicing and practicing. When i 1st started i just did it every time I came to a read light or turned into my subdivision. Before you know it you will have it down smooth with ANY type of shoe. Hell I do it best in flip flops LOL.
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Old Mar 30, 2012 | 02:09 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by jaor.s2k
Originally Posted by takeshi' timestamp='1333110757' post='21559087
[quote name='hicabi' timestamp='1333063973' post='21557687']One thing I like about the 370Z is that it does all this stuff for you, better than any of us, even downshifting from second to first gear...
I'd have to try it but it sounds like another layer of detachment IMO.
i would never use the rev match feature on the z (i think it can be turned on and off). and downshifting to 2nd to 1st is kinda hard, but you don't need it for daily driving anyways
[/quote]

I guess it can be considered a layer of detachment. But not like say automatic transmission, where there is an advantage to choosing your shift points. No machine can decide for you, therefore can never do a good enough job.

In case of rev matching, it appears to me all we try to do is to match the revs perfectly, and the machine will do it better than a human. To me, the car does the dirty work for you. And I guess that's point. What I call "dirty" might be a joy for others.
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Old Mar 31, 2012 | 08:54 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by thomsbrain
I do heel-toe when setting up for corners in daily driving, even at a relaxed pace, merely out of habit. But I rarely do it if approaching a stop-light. And I don't think it's a very important skill regardless.

Skip Barber says heel-toe is one of the last things a driver should worry about. You can put down very fast laps without using the technique. What you gain in reduced clutch wear or reduced body motion is often lost in uneven braking force while you are blipping.

It is really easy to heel-toe and focus on matched shifts. It is really freaking hard to maintain threshold braking AND heel-toe at the same time. There's more time to shave off in braking than there is in heel-toe. Like I said, heel-toe is just my habit at this point, even though I KNOW I lose time by having occasionally uneven braking as a result.
Good considered response.

I agree with you. At the limit I doubt there are much gains for most of us. I just like the badass sound of the rev match while braking. Gets me all excited
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Old Mar 31, 2012 | 08:33 PM
  #40  
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While most do lift up a bit on the brake while doing the heel-toe, if watched properly by the driver, Im sure the error would be corrected. Track purposes of course
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