[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strike
[B]Nastinupe,

 

It'll surely be interesting to see if Honda caves to the kind of pressure to bump power that you guys are talking about. Nasti is right that 13 years ago, when it was introduced, the Miata had adequate power to lure hundreds of thousands of buyers. Of course, Mazda totally revived the roadster that year... There was no competition with bigger cahones to interest us.

Now, the situation is entirely different. Thanks to the wild success of the Miata, every manufacturer has built ragtops to offer us in the last few years (Honda included), and the roadster market has totally raised the bar. My S2000 has essentially double the power of my '90 Miata, and it's a LEV to boot.

That said, it wasn't power that lured me to buy this car, nasti... It's the whole package. And, I think that's what a lot of us are saying here.

Anyway, interesting discussion! Rock on, guys...

 

To a certain extent I concur what nastinupe1 is saying. They do need to raise the bar but nothing as drastic IMO. The NSX is aging and for the price of a new one I'd have to consider a Porsche or Ferrari instead. As for the s2000, it's coming into its 4th year so the novelty has started if not worn off in the car industry.

However, I don't think Honda is going to "blitz" the market as what Nissan has does.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone knows except for the Honda "Powers At Be" in Japan, what their philosophy actually is ?

Sales figures play a factor as well so I think if Honda experience a lack of sales will they then decide to "rev-vamp" things.

We in North America will probably never be privy to that information unless we had an insider ?

IMO I think by 2005-2006 will be pivotal years for Honda as it's competitors will have firmly entrenched themselves for long term design and engineering like Porsche has with the 911 's and then we'll see if Honda can react and continue along the lines of 911's ? or continue to change designs, models, etc.

just my $.02
s2ksimon

 

OK first of all, the miata was never designed to be an outright performance showcase. Mazda single-handedly revived the sports car market by creating a simple, affordable classic sports car with deep british influence. It was completely alone in its class until 2001 when Toyota released the MR2 spyder. Everyone thinks the miata is underpowered when in fact, it bodes well with the toyota in terms of performance. Despite what you may read in Road and Track, Mazda will not take the miata "upscale" to compete with the S2000, Boxster, or Z4.

Myth: Adding more HP to the S2000 will ruin sales of the Acura NSX.
Truth: Completely false. Sales of the NSX are already EXTREMELY low at around 200 per year. Any other car company would have axed the NSX by now, but Honda is keeping it around as a trophy of its design and engineering. This is what I respect so much about Honda. Therefore do you think they care if NSX sales fall from 200 to 180 next year? From a consumer standpoint, I'm pretty sure those 200 people who bought NSX's last year know they can buy faster cars for less money. They bought the NSX for specific reasons, which don't necessarily apply towards the S2000.

Does the S2000 need more HP?
Not necessarily. The S2000 was so far ahead of its time, that it took other car companies 4 years to catch up. It still fares well to cars like the Boxster S, Audi TT, and Z4. The Z3 turned Z4 is finally on par with the S2000 in terms of chassis dynamics and driving sophistication. 240HP doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind the S2000 is still the lightest car in its class. Would you rather be driving a 290HP roadster that weighed 3200lbs? Sure you can brag to your buddies about driving a 290HP beast as you completely understeer around the road course. No thanks. The key here is HP/weight. I'm surprised nobody had mentioned how heavy these "HP war" cars have become. Maybe cars like the 350Z have so much power because at 3200lbs it needs it?

Honda had a PWR target even before they started the SSM project, and despite car manufacturers adding HP throughout the years, the overall ratio hasn't changed much.

So what does Honda do next?
Good question. There are still no credible evidence of a new NSX OR S2000. Will both cars get discontinued? What is to become of the Tochigi factory then?? Will they become a Honda insight factory? Nobody knows but Honda.

I guess the bottom line is: who the heck cares? Every minute worrying about what Honda does, is another minute wasted behind the wheel. Drive, be happy.

 

This is clearly your opinion and I highly doubt many others here share it.

Honda isn't about "jumping on the bandwagon." They never have been and hopefully never will be.

300 ft/lbs. of torque?? From a Honda?? Don't make me laugh.

Pretty damn good to me. Where do you think the horsepower wars are going anyhow? Do you actually think they are just going to keep going and going and going? Do you think there will be 700HP cars available pretty soon? Uhhh...no.

You need a Z06 with a Lingenfelter Supercharger on it quickly. Honda is NEVER going to give you what you desire. Have you considered the pricetag for this 300HP/300TQ roadster you want? How many of those do you think Honda would really sell if it was $50-60k. Not many considering a supercharged AMG SLK is about that much.

 

I may be the only one to say this, but I don't think the Miata is badly underpowered. I happen to think it is a great, simple, classic sportscar/roadster that I'd be happy to own if the S2000 didn't exist. As it is I almost bought one.

Funny thing is I've never heard a Miata owner complain about the power, they just enjoy driving it. I bet it's as much fun (almost) as our S.

My "badge loyalty" is based on over 25 years of great experiences owning Honda cars and motorcycles. One of the few things that I've come to trust over the years is my own experience. My experience with Honda has been excellent.

There are many reasons to own the S. Straight line, foot to the floor power is the least of it, in my opinion.

 

No you're not the only one to say this.

The miata is more fun to drive on the street because its so easy to get into a sideways slide without breaking the speed limit.

 

I like the Miata as well and have loved the car since it's introduction. I don't know though, it just doesn't do it for me anymore. Maybe if I already had a Corvette and just wanted something to hit the corners in, then it would be different. But since the S is my ONLY sports car, I want it all. Power, handling, looks, and reliability. The NSX would do the trick, but I'm about $60k short,

But lets take a look at the bar right now people. Honda rasied the bar 4 years ago with the S2000. Like Iceman said, it took 4 years for everyone else to catch up. But if a car like the S2200 comes out, suddenly Honda is not the one to chase any longer. I was just hoping that Honda was going to release another bar raiser.

I would also like to address the torque issue.

Why is the Boxster S one of the 10 best this year? It's more expensive than the S, it's accelaration is equal to the S2000, and the car came out in 97 (the Boxster anyway). It's because of the engine. The testers said that they loved the engine. The car mag testers have also repeatedly stated that the S2000 needs more down low power. I remember reading somewhere that the lows for the S2000 was "a bunch of hornets under the hood and not enough sting". Unfortunately it's the truth. And I'm sorry, but and extra .2 L is not going to fix this problem. If the S2200 does come out, then Honda will be turning their back on the one issue that many people state is the only downfall of the car.

If Honda does release the S2200, then they need to seriously consider also releasing the S Type-R. Not as a big seller, but for enthusiasts and the media. It could list for $50k and have the specs we read about in that fake article last year.

I would like to make one last point about how much people around this forum spend on mods. I've seen people spend $10,000-$30,000 on mods. The average of those numbers + $30,000 could have been the price of the S Type R.

So basically, I think that Honda should bring out an S2200 and an S Type R to address the issue. What do you guys think?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nastinupe1
[B]Why is the Boxster S one of the 10 best this year?

 

I agree, the Boxster S is it. I drove one and fell in love. It is the perfect mixture of what a sports car should be. It's not as fast as a C5, but it feels so good to accelerate. I didn't feel like I was lacking power at all.

It's funny when I read about the S2000 being faster than the Boxster S. If I didn't know the numbers, I would have sworn that the Boxster S is faster. The 0-100 MPH acceleration is amazing. There is no VTEC after 6000 RPMs however, there is no waiting for power either.

If I had the money, a fully loaded Boxster S is what I would buy. I like it so much better than the Z06 or 350Z or any other sports car below $70,000 new.

Another thing I like about the Boxster S is the hundreds of options to choose from. I don't think that I have ever seen the same combination twice. It makes the need for modding you car dissapear.

So here's another thought.

The S2600 with 260 hp and 230 lbs/ ft of torque and a redline of 9300 RPMs. Increase the tire size to 17 inches. Give us some choices for rims. Give us more color options. Give us a white, tan, blue, black, or red top option. Give us the same interior color options. Scratch the digital gagues. Scratch the S Type R