Originally Posted by RED MX5,Jun 18 2007, 03:15 PM

Lsos is correct. Most wear takes place during startup.



You don't have to pull the head to check the retainers. All you have to do is pull the cam cover, which only takes a few minutes. There is no need to check the retainers unless there is a posibilty of a mechanical over rev (as with a new car, or when you miss a shift and over rev the engine).




It's just too bad that so few S2000 owners have never had a chance to own and/or drive a car with a high reving engine sans VTEC. The old Fiat engines used in cars like the X-1/9 easily turned 9k on the stock internals, and would actually spin to 9k with the stock camshafts; Of course power started falling off before the factory redline (which was really just a shift point and obviously not a do not exceed speed), so it didn't make sense to rev a stock car beyond the redline unless it was one of those situations where you were about to enter a turn and would lose more time shifting than not. Stock X-1/9's frequently saw engine speeds 1-2k above redline during autocrosses. With a cam change and a little head work peak power could be moved up to 8,800 RPM, which when combined with lower final drive could give the little car surprising acceleration (especially considering the cars weight and minimal displacement). However, the engine did not have VTEC, and at lower revs the car was totally undrivable. Letting the engine drop below 4k was a no-no, and it really didn't put out enough torque to pull well below about 5.5k. BUT, as long as you kept the engine between 7k and 9k (the gear spacing was short enough to allow this) the car was a blast. This is what many people call an "inertia car," because once you're in the powerband you have to keep the speed and revs up to avoid dropping out of the power band. VTEC is like being able to switch back to the stock cam profile at lower engine speeds, allowing an engine that is designed to make peak power at high revs to perform quite well at lower engine speeds. There is nothing new about high revs or 9k, and the F20C is designed to make power over the range of 6k-9k. It just happens to have a little technology that allows it to change cam profiles when you run it at lower speeds, so the high speed engine is managable, and even nice, when you drive the car like a base Civic.

The engine is a screamer, from the ground up, but it has VTEC to make it livable at low revs. This allows people who don't like screamers to drive the car like any other 2000cc I-4 roadster, and there is nothing wrong with that. It just means that we will always have people in the S2000 community who don't see the S2000 as the screamer it really is, and they'll always believe that we're hurting the car when we use the performance it is designed to deliver. It's easy for the guys who do drive the car hard to think that the guys who don't are missing the best the car has to offer, but one of the cool things about the S2000 is that it has the flexability to offer completely different things to different people. There is no "right way" to drive the car. There are probably an infinite number of "wrong ways" to drive any car, and the S2000 can be a little demanding, but it's just as happy and healthy rowing through traffic and being shifted at 4k-4.5k as it is being repeatedly run to redline on a track or autocross course.

Startup, and short trips that never let the car warm up fully will always produce more wear than running the engine to redline.

Originally Posted by iam7head,Jun 18 2007, 02:11 AM

actually it called a load test(correct me if i am wrong), ALOT of MFG does the same thing, they run the engine non stop at high rev for weeks to replicate 100k for driving.

actually one of the longest load test i know of is done by ford's diesel truck motor.

Originally Posted by Jsmply,Jun 18 2007, 06:17 PM

I understand the startup part . . . however what does not letting it warm up fully before turning it off do? I'm assuming the shut-down on the car is rougher? What do you consider fully warmed up? VTEC on the temp gauge (3bars in AP1 7 in AP2) ? I ask because I have an office I go to almost daily that is less than 5 blocks from my house and sometimes I walk but when I need to drive I frequently worry about these kind of posts. I usually drive to the office, then sit in the parking lot for a few minutes before turning the car off to let it warm up.

Originally Posted by RED MX5,Jun 18 2007, 08:12 PM

There are a couple issues with short trips. For one thing, short trips mean more startups per mile driven. Also, short trips that don't get the engine up to temp long enough for condensation and blow-by to be vaporiaed tend to dirty the oil quicker.

Your short drive to the office shouldn't really be a problem as long as that's not the ONLY kind of driving you do. If ALL your miles are short trips, a shorter oil change interval might be advantageous.

Originally Posted by passmans2kny,Jun 19 2007, 03:10 AM

the f20c put out the most hp per liter out of any production engine ever made until the new m3 engine, i dunno if its even out yet

Originally Posted by Jsmply,Jun 18 2007, 11:50 PM

Hey Red, thanks for the reply. I do go to that office daily and with the summer heat I really can't walk that often (can't show up all sweaty). As a result, I have to drive the short 5 blocks to work daily . . . but as far as the only driving I do, do you mean in that trip, or at all? I easily do 250 miles a week AT LEAST. There are some days that the trip to the office (like .3 miles each way) is my only trip with the car, however most days I end up going somewhere else that night. Either to get food, visit the fiance, etc. On the days that I only go to the office, should I be sitting in the parking lot at idle for a minute or two to at least let it reach VTEC temp? Is that even sufficient for what you called "warmed up" in regards to the blow-by and condensation or would it take longer?

I'm currently doing 5,000 mile oil change intervals with Mobile 1 Synthetic with the Honda oil filter. The one time I had the head off my car to inspect the valve clearances and retainers (for fun) everything looked clean enough to eat off of. I guess that does not say much though as the damage would probably be hard to see. Do you recommend shorter than 5,000 miles?

I know . . . I have OCD with my car, lol. Its fun though and just want to make it last as long as possible.