originally posted by Mikey

Have you taken your car to them? I know of at least three people that have had brake ducts done. Yes they're busy, but I'm sure they could have fabricated/installed them.


Hawks are aggressive pads, but for that reason, they have a higher tolerance for heat and DISTRIBUTE less heat to the caliper and rotor.

This should not have been the problem unless you let the pads get very thin. Clean and double check the seals to make sure that it is not just dust on them. Oh yeah, the Porterfields suck.

Brian.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mugen2000
[B]
Hawks are aggressive pads, but for that reason, they have a higher tolerance for heat and DISTRIBUTE less heat to the caliper and rotor.

 

I actually also had a bit of this problem after a driver through the mountains. My front right dust boot was melted. I just used the Honda caliper rebuild kit to fix it. I don't think anyone makes an aftermarket rebuild kit.

 

Extrapolating from the post above, an integrally molded pad is more prone to delamination and heat degradation, which can lead to brake pad failure, when subject to high heat and stress - much moreso than a bonded and riveted pad, such as what we manufacture at Carbotech Engineering. Our pads can be worn from beginning to end, with stable, reliable, and consistence performance; our pads can be worn down to 1/8" without fear of delamination. Such cannot be said of integrally molded pads, which can and HAVE been known (from input from our customers, and from my own personal experience) to delaminate and crumble off the backing plate after as little as 25% wear. If an integrally molded pad does survive and does not delaminate, then it can only be worn down to 3/16" thickness "safely", before it is recommended that a brake pad change be performed.

Pad wear is generally much more rapid during the last 20-25% of the pad life, due to the decreased heat dissipation ability of the pad puck. Cermaic pads (our Panther Plus compound, and the new, soon-to-be-released "Panther Titanium" compound - as well as the current Panther compound - are ceramic-based compounds) are much more efficient than a typical "carbon-metallic" or "ferro-carbon" compound in dissipating heat, from our past testing.

Andie

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarbotechAndie
[B]Pad wear is generally much more rapid during the last 20-25% of the pad life, due to the decreased heat dissipation ability of the pad puck.

 

Consider this. Given two idential cars with same brake systems, one running a high performance carbon-metallic pad, and the other vehicle running the Panther Plus. 10 laps, same type of driving by the same driver, back to back: the first car (carbon-metallic) has rotor temps of 850F+...the second car (Panther Plus) has rotor temps of 575F.

We have found that cars running our pads have COOLER rotor temps. Further, our pads have a thermal barrier that is good to 2000F, between the pad compound material and the backin plate, thus further insulating the pistons and brake fluid from heat. Additionally, it is ALWAYS recommended that one install proper cooling ducts which discharge cool air onto the CALIPER and NOT the rotor. The caliper is where the heat will go to first; the rotors are already "aided" in their cooling by internal vanes and the fact that they are moving (rotating) constantly, while the calipers are FIXED.

Andie

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarbotechAndie
[B]Further, our pads have a thermal barrier that is good to 2000F, between the pad compound material and the backin plate, thus further insulating the pistons and brake fluid from heat.

 

Based on our temperature readings of the brake system components during testing at the track, we feel that the heat is being wept FROM the rotor into the pad compound itself, which serves as a "heat sink" due to its ceramic matrix. The thermal barier is formed from our ceramic based chemical adhesive used between the pad compound and the backing plate. This helps keep heat from passing through to the pistons and thus the fluid. However, the heat which will radiate from the brake pad will heat up the caliper, which itself, is a great heat sink, and thus must be cooled: direct the air from the cooling ducts onto the caliper.

The rotor, on the otherhand, especially on late model vehicles with vented rotors, is constantly in motion, and thus will "cool itself" as long as the car is moving (which is why you should take at least one cool-down lap after your track session, in order to ensure complete and consistent cooling of the rotor, thus reducing the possibility of warping and cracking).

Andie

 

Andie, from looking at the Carbotech pads, it seems a good 1/8th inch of pad (nearly half) cannot be used due to the rivets.

Is there any warning before these rivets hit the rotors? I'm most worried about pad wear on the piston side pads that are not easily visible without pulling a wheel.

As the pad compound is only about 5/16ths of an inch, do you just recommend changing pads when the compound is only half worn?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mikey
[B]Andie, from looking at the Carbotech pads, it seems a good 1/8th inch of pad (nearly half) cannot be used due to the rivets.