My SO2's are just fine in the rain.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: FCUK
Strike,
I was taking Sunchilds point to the extreme to make a point.
I do agree with the points that people are making here totally. It is a question of compromise. I would prefer to compromise the very high limit of dry handling to get what I would consider an acceptable limit in the wet.
I would say that I don't drive this car anywhere near the limit in the dry, but I found the limit very easily in the wet.
I know that this is debate that will never be concluded since there are such opposite opinions and different expectations.... I just think that it is important to have both sides of an argument aired....
I was taking Sunchilds point to the extreme to make a point.
I do agree with the points that people are making here totally. It is a question of compromise. I would prefer to compromise the very high limit of dry handling to get what I would consider an acceptable limit in the wet.
I would say that I don't drive this car anywhere near the limit in the dry, but I found the limit very easily in the wet.
I know that this is debate that will never be concluded since there are such opposite opinions and different expectations.... I just think that it is important to have both sides of an argument aired....
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From: Sin City
I've experimented quite a bit with these tires. I have over 14k on them as well with good tred remaining. I can say, I've driven Porsches, MR2s, Mustangs. The ass end in this car is very slippery. Believe it or not; I will only go through a corner half the speed as I used to do it with my MR2. I think I'm a competant driver and I drive the car as I'm supposed to according to all the advise givin on this website. However, this is the slipperiest car I've ever driven and I live in Vegas.
George
George
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From: Melbourne
I have 13k km (~8k miles) on my tyres now. I find the S02s one of the better gripping 'performance' tyres in the wet. Also, there was recent test in a magazine where they tested tyre performace (wet and dry). They had a selection of about 15 high-perfromace tyres (like S02s, P-Zero, Michelin Pilot, Conti Sport etc...) and in the wet the S02s were ranked about 4th (or 5th) out of all of these. They were not very far behind the leader (BF Goodrich Profiler) in terms of wet laptimes. The magazine writers comented on the S02s radical design (which they though looks like it is not suited to wet conditions) but they said that despite this design the S02s channel watter just as good if not better than most high-performance tyres.
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The ass end in this car is very slippery. Believe it or not; I will only go through a corner half the speed as I used to do it with my MR2.
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I've also had MR2 before the S2000; though the MR2 here came with about 174hp stock. I had the car for 6 years and had to replace rear tyres every 14 months or so. Again, from all the perfronce tyres that I put on, the S02s (which I had a few sets over good 3 years) were by far the best tyre in the wet (as well as dry). They offered the most grip by far.
Though, I do agree with your comment that the MR2 felf a lot grippier in the wet. Put it down to these things - MR2 had the same width tyre at the back as the S2000 while only about 70% of power. Also, MR2 has about 30% taller gearing and has 56% of weight over the back wheels. That equates to insane rear end grip.
Though, I find that the S2000 in the wet is more suspectible to loose traction with abrupt throttle application. It doesn't take much to get the back sliding while under power (even at lower revs). Though, that goes even more for any other car with decent power (and torque). On the other hand, if your throttle application is very smooth, then you could squeeze on full power around 1st corner bends even in the wet. It's very important to be very smooth with the power and also make sure you don't tighten the steering-lock under these conditions.
ps. I've complained about S2000's 'lack of grip' in the wet before so if you look though these posts you'll find that I got around this mostly by changing my driving style:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...9&highlight=wet
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...1&highlight=wet
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The ass end in this car is very slippery. Believe it or not; I will only go through a corner half the speed as I used to do it with my MR2.
--------------------------------------------
I've also had MR2 before the S2000; though the MR2 here came with about 174hp stock. I had the car for 6 years and had to replace rear tyres every 14 months or so. Again, from all the perfronce tyres that I put on, the S02s (which I had a few sets over good 3 years) were by far the best tyre in the wet (as well as dry). They offered the most grip by far.
Though, I do agree with your comment that the MR2 felf a lot grippier in the wet. Put it down to these things - MR2 had the same width tyre at the back as the S2000 while only about 70% of power. Also, MR2 has about 30% taller gearing and has 56% of weight over the back wheels. That equates to insane rear end grip.
Though, I find that the S2000 in the wet is more suspectible to loose traction with abrupt throttle application. It doesn't take much to get the back sliding while under power (even at lower revs). Though, that goes even more for any other car with decent power (and torque). On the other hand, if your throttle application is very smooth, then you could squeeze on full power around 1st corner bends even in the wet. It's very important to be very smooth with the power and also make sure you don't tighten the steering-lock under these conditions.
ps. I've complained about S2000's 'lack of grip' in the wet before so if you look though these posts you'll find that I got around this mostly by changing my driving style:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...9&highlight=wet
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...1&highlight=wet
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: HP
Agree! S02s are no worse in the wet than any other performance tire. The risk lies in the driver not being aware of the S02s rapid tread wear, and the fact that wet conditions will magnify bad driving habits.
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From: Watford
Personally I've swapped my S02's for S02PP's for the Winter in the UK. The tread pattern is more aggresive and the rain channels wider. Even with this extra help, I'll still slow down in the rain. IMO every effort should be spent keeping the car on the road and being safe to yourself and anybody else on the road.
As it's my daily driver, I wanted a tyre which out performed the S02's in the wet. I remember having a scare when I'd only covered 3K miles last year in the wet. I'm hoping not to repeat it this year!
As it's my daily driver, I wanted a tyre which out performed the S02's in the wet. I remember having a scare when I'd only covered 3K miles last year in the wet. I'm hoping not to repeat it this year!
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Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Cleveland
I was one of the people that said "S02's suck in the rain." What I should have said is that S02's suck in the rain when compared to all weather tires. (And no, I haven't crashed my car.)
An example of being able to push the car within the limits of the driver and the vehicle for the given conditions... There was an R&T article a few months back where they compared the S2000 against the NSX (and several other cars as well.) It was raining at the test track.
The professional driver said that of the 10 or so cars tested, the S2000 was the most slippery in the rain, but it was also the most fun in the rain. If most of us tried to pull the same lap times, we probably would end up spinning off the track. Not the tire's fault since the pro could do it!
An example of being able to push the car within the limits of the driver and the vehicle for the given conditions... There was an R&T article a few months back where they compared the S2000 against the NSX (and several other cars as well.) It was raining at the test track.
The professional driver said that of the 10 or so cars tested, the S2000 was the most slippery in the rain, but it was also the most fun in the rain. If most of us tried to pull the same lap times, we probably would end up spinning off the track. Not the tire's fault since the pro could do it!
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Lisbon
I believe we are mixing things up. This is usually not very conductive to clear thinking... .
All tyres have a performance envelope. People exceed this envelope with the S02 and pay the consequences. It is good to warn people, and post war stories, and generally contribute to the overall safety of all types of road users. Not many people would dispute this.
However, this has nothing to do with the actual performance envelope of a given tyre. To claim that the stock S02 are as performant in the wet as for instance S02PP or Goodyear F1, is ill advice. The OEM S02 mission is predominantly warm, dry weather traction. If you are looking to go fast in the wet, I believe there are other better options out there. The perfect tyre has not been invented, yet.
.All tyres have a performance envelope. People exceed this envelope with the S02 and pay the consequences. It is good to warn people, and post war stories, and generally contribute to the overall safety of all types of road users. Not many people would dispute this.
However, this has nothing to do with the actual performance envelope of a given tyre. To claim that the stock S02 are as performant in the wet as for instance S02PP or Goodyear F1, is ill advice. The OEM S02 mission is predominantly warm, dry weather traction. If you are looking to go fast in the wet, I believe there are other better options out there. The perfect tyre has not been invented, yet.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Baltimore
Hey Sunchild,
I hope you have the money to buy new tires after every 3,000 miles, because that's the only way you are going to be able to stick to your guns on this post. Please try to drive your car the same way with 8,000 miles on the rears.
I am sure someone will help you peel your car off that jersey barrier.
I hope you have the money to buy new tires after every 3,000 miles, because that's the only way you are going to be able to stick to your guns on this post. Please try to drive your car the same way with 8,000 miles on the rears.
I am sure someone will help you peel your car off that jersey barrier.
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From: Bedford
My main problem with the OEM rears came on when they had about 8-10K miles. Wet weather traction was OK except through standing water at highway speeds. The ass-end was forever slewing around, even at a straight and steady speed.
I replaced the rear OEMs with Michelin Pilot Sports, which seem to have far superior wet traction capabilites, a better wear factor and nearly as good dry grip.
I replaced the rear OEMs with Michelin Pilot Sports, which seem to have far superior wet traction capabilites, a better wear factor and nearly as good dry grip.