Hello all, I am new to the forum, and I have learned alot already. I currently own an 06 focus with a manual transmission. I hope so much to upgrade to a s2k for my second car before/as I go to college, and I have heard that ap1s have an oversteer tendency. I will probably only be able to afford an earlier model ap1. Having said that, how easy is the oversteer to manage on it? Like if I start to go around a round-a-bout a little too quickly in the wet, is it hard to recover or is unpredictable under sliding condtions?

Thank you!
Jesse

 

It's only unpredictable if you're not prepared for it.

Most of the cases of "snap" oversteer are gross driver error without the talent to recognize that they were getting into a bad situation.

It is very hard to recover from a very poor driving input in these cars at the limit.

Some things to decrease chance of wrecking:
1. Good tires for the appropriate weather conditions.
2. Driving school (autocrosss / track).
3. Aftermarket traction control (~$1000 and you can install in a few hours).

 

AP1 handling is a little bit nonlinear due to rear toe change with bump (aka "bump steer". You get an initial oversteer lurch entering a corner, than as the body rolls the outside rear toes inward and handling becomes neutral. The big problem with this arrangement is that if you LIFT off the gas (or worse, stab the brakes) while cornering, the nose dives and the rear rises, and the ouside rear toes OUT. So in addition to the oversteer you get from unloading the rears, you get an extra dose of oversteer from the rear toe shenanigans.

It is totally managable *IF* you know how to drive properly. Put simply, "slow in, fast out." If you have to LIFT while cornering, the back end will want to get loose.

It's a very responsive and fun car, but it is *particularly* evil-handling when rookie mistakes are made, i.e., the "big lift" or stab of the brakes while cornering.

 

I haven't pushed the S to her breaking point nor engaged my VSA...and have been "surprised" by it all...the S is one hell of a car.

 

i drove an ap1 with only intake and testpipe, and compare to my oem 08, i would like to say ap1 will go over limit way faster than my ap2, on the same road i drive everyday, that ap1 is a bit scary to step on gas comapre to my ap2 at some turns, but my friend said my ap2 feels faster even though it is a bit dull on handling compare to his ap1.

 

My experience on the couple of track days I did was that I would screw up, I'd expect trouble, then I'd be surprised at how forgiving my '00 was.

 

If your driving normally on a dry road with decent tread on your tires you really dont need to worry about oversteer. You WILL run into problems if you decide to push the car, run the tread on your tires very low, or drive even slightly aggressively in the rain. I've had the rear end of my car (MY00) step out on me a few times on wet roads, and I can tell you that if I hadn't attended auto x sessions I would've lost control.

Dont be scared away from the s2k because of this, it really is a great car, you just need to respect how quickly it can come around on you under the right circumstances.

Good Luck with your research, hope to see you in the seat of an s2k in the future

 

Just buy the car, and take several months getting to know it before you decide to try and push it in the corners. Do some auto x or track days, and get some seat time. It's nothing that a somewhat experienced driver can't handle.

Good luck, and make a welcome thread when you get one.

 

It's not when you're ON the gas that the AP1 will bite. It's when you get *OFF* the gas (or stab the brakes).

Too many people in these forums seem to equate too much throttle with oversteer. Sure, in 1st gear (or in a car with more serious power/weight), maybe, but *generally* on the gas => understeer and OFF the gas (or on the brakes) => oversteer.

 

Agreed, I was a little hesitant to take my car 04 ap2 near the limit until my first track day. Which was wet in the morning and dry in the afternoon. In the wet with the RE050's it had amazing grip and only slid out when I was in vtec flooring it out of a corner around 40-50mph.

In the dry it was much less likely to slide, however as the tires got closer to death it slid a lot like it was in the wet (predictable and controllable). The only time I fully lost control of the car is when I was doing something I knew was wrong. I was coming around a corner flooring it in second, fell out of the line due to some under steer, hit the red line and flat shifted to 3rd. The car started to spin, I gently lifted and corrected, went into a pendulum, then I fully lost it and went off in the tangent line into the grass. My ap2 with stock 215/245 RE050's was super prone to under steer.

With my new set of R-S3's, it over steers a lot more, and especially when there is a bump in the road and some weight transfers to the front.

Honestly, this car isn't nearly as hard to drive as people make it out to be IMO.