Questions on driving the S2000
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when you pop it into neutral, the TI and TO speeds are no longer locked, so TO will eventually be 0 when you come to a stop, and TI will be engine idle speed if you engage the clutch. in other words, the speed difference is pretty minimal.
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Originally Posted by lols2000,Aug 26 2009, 06:41 PM
If you wanna go from 4th into 2nd this is how I do it:
You're in 4th gear
Clutch in
Shift into 3rd
Shift into 2nd
Blip the throttle so that engine RPMs are close to what they should be for that speed in 2nd gear
Clutch out
Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're in 4th gear
Clutch in
Shift into 3rd
Shift into 2nd
Blip the throttle so that engine RPMs are close to what they should be for that speed in 2nd gear
Clutch out
Correct me if I'm wrong.
This is what I do; I'm new to the S2K, but this is how I did it on my VW too.
Switching from 4th to 2nd:
4th > clutch shift to 2nd (skipping 3rd) > clutch out.
I don't see the point in just putting it in 3rd with no clutch out.
Correct me if I'm mistaken please.
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From: Jersey C.I
Euhhhm, seems to be some rather confusing information here.
There is not a syncromesh for each gear, it is just one syncromesh, right?
With the Clutch Dis-engaged moving through the gears does nothing other than selecting that gear, the syncromesh will not even start to work until you start to and fully engage the clutch. Assuming you have the clutch depressed you can select reverse if you want to, while moving forward. Hell, you can select Reverse, 3rd, 6th, 1st, 4th in that order and it makes no odds until you have re-engaged the clutch.
Moving Gear Stick = Selecting gears
Engaging Clutch = Mating Clutch Disc to Input Shaft, Syncromesh does its magic.
If you are going to work down through the gears, then dis-engage clutch and re-engage it between every shift, otherwise you achieve nothing more than going straight from 6th to 2nd.
Moving down through gears with the clutch depressed and left depressed means you are coasting while you are moving down through the gears.
There is NOTHING wrong skipping gears assuming you are manually rev matching.
There is not a syncromesh for each gear, it is just one syncromesh, right?
With the Clutch Dis-engaged moving through the gears does nothing other than selecting that gear, the syncromesh will not even start to work until you start to and fully engage the clutch. Assuming you have the clutch depressed you can select reverse if you want to, while moving forward. Hell, you can select Reverse, 3rd, 6th, 1st, 4th in that order and it makes no odds until you have re-engaged the clutch.
Moving Gear Stick = Selecting gears
Engaging Clutch = Mating Clutch Disc to Input Shaft, Syncromesh does its magic.
If you are going to work down through the gears, then dis-engage clutch and re-engage it between every shift, otherwise you achieve nothing more than going straight from 6th to 2nd.
Moving down through gears with the clutch depressed and left depressed means you are coasting while you are moving down through the gears.
There is NOTHING wrong skipping gears assuming you are manually rev matching.
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Market Harborough, Leics.
Each gear cluster has its own synchromesh and the syncro rings work irrespective of whether the clutch is in or out.
Basically the syncro ring is a clutch face that speeds up or slows down the gearset to match the speed of the output gear it is about to mesh with.
If you change from 4th to 2nd you use the 2nd gear synchro ring to match the relative gear speeds. If you go via 3rd then you spread the wear between 2nd and 3rd gear syncro rings. Ie you change from 4th to 3rd and the 3rd gear syncro ring slows down the gear set to match speeds and then when you change down to 2nd the 2nd gear syncro ring slows the gear set down even further to match speeds.
Blipping the throttle is of no benefit to the syncro rings unless you double declutch. What blipping the throttle does is match engine speed to wheel speed so that when you release the clutch you're not using the clutch to accelerate the engine up to match transmission speed (ie engine braking) which can cause the rear wheels to loose traction, particularly in the wet and why on track it is better to heel and toe on change down.
Basically the syncro ring is a clutch face that speeds up or slows down the gearset to match the speed of the output gear it is about to mesh with.
If you change from 4th to 2nd you use the 2nd gear synchro ring to match the relative gear speeds. If you go via 3rd then you spread the wear between 2nd and 3rd gear syncro rings. Ie you change from 4th to 3rd and the 3rd gear syncro ring slows down the gear set to match speeds and then when you change down to 2nd the 2nd gear syncro ring slows the gear set down even further to match speeds.
Blipping the throttle is of no benefit to the syncro rings unless you double declutch. What blipping the throttle does is match engine speed to wheel speed so that when you release the clutch you're not using the clutch to accelerate the engine up to match transmission speed (ie engine braking) which can cause the rear wheels to loose traction, particularly in the wet and why on track it is better to heel and toe on change down.
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Originally Posted by Sin_Chase,Aug 27 2009, 06:47 AM
Euhhhm, seems to be some rather confusing information here.
There is not a syncromesh for each gear, it is just one syncromesh, right?
With the Clutch Dis-engaged moving through the gears does nothing other than selecting that gear, the syncromesh will not even start to work until you start to and fully engage the clutch. Assuming you have the clutch depressed you can select reverse if you want to, while moving forward. Hell, you can select Reverse, 3rd, 6th, 1st, 4th in that order and it makes no odds until you have re-engaged the clutch.
Moving Gear Stick = Selecting gears
Engaging Clutch = Mating Clutch Disc to Input Shaft, Syncromesh does its magic.
If you are going to work down through the gears, then dis-engage clutch and re-engage it between every shift, otherwise you achieve nothing more than going straight from 6th to 2nd.
Moving down through gears with the clutch depressed and left depressed means you are coasting while you are moving down through the gears.
There is NOTHING wrong skipping gears assuming you are manually rev matching.
There is not a syncromesh for each gear, it is just one syncromesh, right?
With the Clutch Dis-engaged moving through the gears does nothing other than selecting that gear, the syncromesh will not even start to work until you start to and fully engage the clutch. Assuming you have the clutch depressed you can select reverse if you want to, while moving forward. Hell, you can select Reverse, 3rd, 6th, 1st, 4th in that order and it makes no odds until you have re-engaged the clutch.
Moving Gear Stick = Selecting gears
Engaging Clutch = Mating Clutch Disc to Input Shaft, Syncromesh does its magic.
If you are going to work down through the gears, then dis-engage clutch and re-engage it between every shift, otherwise you achieve nothing more than going straight from 6th to 2nd.
Moving down through gears with the clutch depressed and left depressed means you are coasting while you are moving down through the gears.
There is NOTHING wrong skipping gears assuming you are manually rev matching.
the OP gives a pretty good explanation. the main shaft is what i referred to as the input shaft, and the counter shaft is what i referred to as the output shaft. there are synchros that help match the speeds of these shafts within the transmission - hence the infamous "can't shift into 2nd gear" problem. rowing through the gears will distribute the wear across gear synchros, while double de-clutching will actually reduce wear (if you do it well), but that's another story
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From: Romford, Essex
Originally Posted by Sin_Chase,Aug 27 2009, 02:47 AM
Euhhhm, seems to be some rather confusing information here.
There is not a syncromesh for each gear, it is just one syncromesh, right?
With the Clutch Dis-engaged moving through the gears does nothing other than selecting that gear, the syncromesh will not even start to work until you start to and fully engage the clutch. Assuming you have the clutch depressed you can select reverse if you want to, while moving forward. Hell, you can select Reverse, 3rd, 6th, 1st, 4th in that order and it makes no odds until you have re-engaged the clutch.
Moving Gear Stick = Selecting gears
Engaging Clutch = Mating Clutch Disc to Input Shaft, Syncromesh does its magic.
If you are going to work down through the gears, then dis-engage clutch and re-engage it between every shift, otherwise you achieve nothing more than going straight from 6th to 2nd.
Moving down through gears with the clutch depressed and left depressed means you are coasting while you are moving down through the gears.
There is NOTHING wrong skipping gears assuming you are manually rev matching.
There is not a syncromesh for each gear, it is just one syncromesh, right?
With the Clutch Dis-engaged moving through the gears does nothing other than selecting that gear, the syncromesh will not even start to work until you start to and fully engage the clutch. Assuming you have the clutch depressed you can select reverse if you want to, while moving forward. Hell, you can select Reverse, 3rd, 6th, 1st, 4th in that order and it makes no odds until you have re-engaged the clutch.
Moving Gear Stick = Selecting gears
Engaging Clutch = Mating Clutch Disc to Input Shaft, Syncromesh does its magic.
If you are going to work down through the gears, then dis-engage clutch and re-engage it between every shift, otherwise you achieve nothing more than going straight from 6th to 2nd.
Moving down through gears with the clutch depressed and left depressed means you are coasting while you are moving down through the gears.
There is NOTHING wrong skipping gears assuming you are manually rev matching.
The main clutch disengages the input shaft from the engine, but the synchromesh will match the speed of the gear you are selecting to the speed of the output shaft. This happens even when the main clutch is engaged.
The moment you engage the clutch, the input and output shafts are still spinning fast so you need this synchro to match their speeds when you try and engage a gear. If you try and shift too fast and the syncho does not have time to match the speed of the gear to the shaft and it will "block" the change, which you can feel as the gear refusing to engage. If you really force it you will override the blocker and "crunch" it.
When you then dis-engage the clutch, the gears are already locked to the input and output shafts, and the clutch will now reconnect the engine to the input shaft, again matching speed if required.
I agree with you that running through the gears is a total waste of time.
I also think that reverse is different - this is always locked to the input and output shafts so requires both shaft to be stationary before if is engaged. There is no syncromesh on reverse.
Please feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.
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Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Northamptonshire
Under normal driving conditions in traffic etc. then I always shift down through each gear depressing the clutch and using engine braking. This is how driving instructors in the UK teach people to drive a stick correctly to ensure you are in the correct gear for bends.
Shifting using gate changing (skipping a gear) is considered acceptable but the only time I've heard of it on a down shift is to put the car into the power band or on cam in VTEC in our case.
Shifting up using a gate change (much more common) can help with your fuel economy when you're driving gently but you should always make sure you don't labour the engine as this actually decreased your fuel economy.
When changing down if driving very agressively (track conditions or UK B-roads/country roads) to keep the car on cam I will shift down through the box heel-toeing (blipping the throttle whilst applying the brakes at the same time) in order to match engine speed to wheel speed on approach to a bend, turn in keeping the throttle flat through the bend and then accelerate on exit again.
When driving very gently I will use the gears effectively to slow the car down by gradually reducing speed through engine braking, shifting down through the box, depressing the clutch for each shift. In this instance I rarely use the brakes but I am putting very little strain on the synchro and don't really risk loss of traction as the speeds are low and its during town/city driving.
For the OP, if you are new to the car just take it easy while you get used to it. Shift how you feel comfortable but if the car feels light in a bend its generally because you are in the wrong gear, taken at the wrong speed.
Auto's make you think this light feeling is normal but the car should hold itself 'steady' with your foot barely resting on the throttle if you are in the correct gear for a bend IMO.
When its wet it's perfectly fine to use VTEC but don't slam your foot down on the throttle as you will spin the wheels up. You need to be progressive, feeding the gas in gently and until you are used to this and only do it when all 4 wheels point in the same direction to avoid any early mishaps.
It also make a HUGE difference with the type of road surface you are on so pay attention to this as the concrete highways and main roads will have far more traction than smoother asphalt roads.
Shifting using gate changing (skipping a gear) is considered acceptable but the only time I've heard of it on a down shift is to put the car into the power band or on cam in VTEC in our case.
Shifting up using a gate change (much more common) can help with your fuel economy when you're driving gently but you should always make sure you don't labour the engine as this actually decreased your fuel economy.
When changing down if driving very agressively (track conditions or UK B-roads/country roads) to keep the car on cam I will shift down through the box heel-toeing (blipping the throttle whilst applying the brakes at the same time) in order to match engine speed to wheel speed on approach to a bend, turn in keeping the throttle flat through the bend and then accelerate on exit again.
When driving very gently I will use the gears effectively to slow the car down by gradually reducing speed through engine braking, shifting down through the box, depressing the clutch for each shift. In this instance I rarely use the brakes but I am putting very little strain on the synchro and don't really risk loss of traction as the speeds are low and its during town/city driving.
For the OP, if you are new to the car just take it easy while you get used to it. Shift how you feel comfortable but if the car feels light in a bend its generally because you are in the wrong gear, taken at the wrong speed.
Auto's make you think this light feeling is normal but the car should hold itself 'steady' with your foot barely resting on the throttle if you are in the correct gear for a bend IMO.
When its wet it's perfectly fine to use VTEC but don't slam your foot down on the throttle as you will spin the wheels up. You need to be progressive, feeding the gas in gently and until you are used to this and only do it when all 4 wheels point in the same direction to avoid any early mishaps.
It also make a HUGE difference with the type of road surface you are on so pay attention to this as the concrete highways and main roads will have far more traction than smoother asphalt roads.
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From: Brit in Athens, Greece
I don't row the gears and I don't plan to start. The situations in which I would do what I've always referred to as 'box-shifting', ie going from 4th to 2nd are rare, but I am not worried about the synchro. As long as you are clean, smooth and precise with your shifting and clutch work, I see no reason for the synchro to come under any UNDUE strain. It may work it a touch harder, but this practice of rowing the gears is unfeasible in my opinion, and I refuse to believe that it adds 'significant' life to the synchro.
Why is there so much of this scare-mongery around this car... You MUST do this, you MUSTN'T do that. Besides, you can just double clutch if you're that worried, it's not hard! I'm not rolling through every bloody gear when I get to a toll station on the highway! Mercy!
Look after the oil and the tires, drive smoothly and precisely and your car will respond in kind, like the road carving katana that it is. Personally I plan to enjoy my car fully, even if that means I pay an extra visit to service every now and then. God forbid I could be driving around like a nervous wreck double clutching and rowing the gears all the time. lol.
To the OP... The S2000 isn't a faberge egg, drive it like a car. Be careful in the bends and in the rain, but enjoy it, don't be stressed when you're driving that you might get 30 seconds more life out of x, y or z part, if you drive like Miss Daisy...
My 2c...
Why is there so much of this scare-mongery around this car... You MUST do this, you MUSTN'T do that. Besides, you can just double clutch if you're that worried, it's not hard! I'm not rolling through every bloody gear when I get to a toll station on the highway! Mercy!
Look after the oil and the tires, drive smoothly and precisely and your car will respond in kind, like the road carving katana that it is. Personally I plan to enjoy my car fully, even if that means I pay an extra visit to service every now and then. God forbid I could be driving around like a nervous wreck double clutching and rowing the gears all the time. lol.
To the OP... The S2000 isn't a faberge egg, drive it like a car. Be careful in the bends and in the rain, but enjoy it, don't be stressed when you're driving that you might get 30 seconds more life out of x, y or z part, if you drive like Miss Daisy...
My 2c...