S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

racing a s2000

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Old Sep 9, 2007 | 03:12 AM
  #31  
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Love how the OP is left to responding with drawn out txt spk between two huge blocks of signature. Talk about ownage.

How about we factor in tire slip in 1st gear? By allowing some tire slip we can spend more time higher up in the power band, which will only partly be eaten by not getting the force to the ground.
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Old Sep 9, 2007 | 02:00 PM
  #32  
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Well I def don't have an equation for this, but in my experience pushing to the line is the best, so when you downshift your staying in the VTEC range, but that is really for a NA S2000. As for forced induction added, I'm no pro on that...

But in my mind the S2K just isn't a straight line car, go find some twisties or autocross if you want the car to truly impress you.
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Old Sep 9, 2007 | 03:54 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Sep 9 2007, 04:06 AM
No, you are wrong. It's "area under the power curve" that matters. (Really, the power integrated as a function of time.)

this can be shown because on a car with a perfectly flat torque curve, it will still make a big difference if you spend your time at high RPM versus low RPM.

A=F/M
F=(wheel torque)*(wheel radius)
(wheel torque) is a function of power input to the wheel and the angular velocity of the wheel

If the engine is turning slowly but the wheel is turning fast, you need taller gearing than if the engine is turing fast and the wheel is turning fast. Right? Taller gearing steps down engine torque, right? So for the same engine torque, you would rather make it at high RPM than low RPMs, right? So that means it's power (torque times RPM) that is the key factor for the acceleration.
Rather than get into another debate over this, I'll just direct you to a couple books that discuss the approach I use. Design of Racing Sports Cars , Chapter 4, and The Sports Car - It's Design and Performance, Chapter 10 (both books were written by Colin Campbell).

Here we have the OP asking about shift points, and there are several ways to determine what is optimal. The most direct way is to simply measure the acceleration in each gear directly. You then simply plot the curves together to determine the shift points. Of course you could also use the thrust curves, since acceleration is proportional to thrust. You can also calculate the thrust curves given the torque curve and gearing, as we have recently seen done in the gear simulation thread. If it's not clear how these things relate the books I mentioned above might make it clearer.

No argument from me about whether there are other ways to derive the same information, including working from WHP, but determining the ideal shift points is straight forward if you look at the acceleration curve in each gear, and the most direct way to derive that if you can't measure it directly is to measure the engine torque, then compute the axle torque and resulting thrust.

Anyway Mike, let's not argue about it. If I haven't been clear and convincing, check out the two books, as they explain it quite well. If you don't buy Colin's logic and methods, PM me and we'll discuss it in private.
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Old Sep 9, 2007 | 03:59 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by S2K_1987,Sep 9 2007, 05:00 PM
Well I def don't have an equation for this, but in my experience pushing to the line is the best, so when you downshift your staying in the VTEC range, but that is really for a NA S2000. As for forced induction added, I'm no pro on that...

But in my mind the S2K just isn't a straight line car, go find some twisties or autocross if you want the car to truly impress you.
You have to push first gear to redline to avoid dropping out of VTEC on the 1-2 shift, but after that the drop in engine speed with each shift is decreased. Even so, you need to run to redline in all the gears to get the most out of the S2000. With a centrifigual blower, boost goes up exponentially with increasing engine speed, so keeping the revs as high as possible also keeps the boost up, and it's even more essential to wind the car all the way out in each gear to get all the engine has to offer.
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