Rear Brakes
01-16-2010, 06:34 PM
#2
That's kind of a bizarre post. Why don't you give some background on your particular situation and maybe we can help you.
It's odd that anyone would talk specifically about their rear brakes. The S2000 already has a rear brake bias, so it would highly depend on what you plan on doing with the car balance and tire stagger to give you advice.
Not to mention it would depend on what type of driving you plan on and what braking characteristic you're looking to change.
It's odd that anyone would talk specifically about their rear brakes. The S2000 already has a rear brake bias, so it would highly depend on what you plan on doing with the car balance and tire stagger to give you advice.
Not to mention it would depend on what type of driving you plan on and what braking characteristic you're looking to change.
01-16-2010, 10:53 PM
#4
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I believe CKit just means its more biased towards the rear than the front compared to normal cars. Look at it this way: The s2000 is set up for "racing" not like normal driving cars. The faster you are going while trying to slow down, the harder the rear brakes have to work; This is because at 10mph, without rear brakes, if you slam the front brakes only, the car stops. now at 40 mph you slam just the front brakes, now the front tires start to slip...
Ideally, you want 50/50 fr/rr brake bias for BEST "STOPPING" - well, almost 50/50, since weight transfers to the front as you slow down...now try turning while hitting the brakes...with a 50/50 bias, youre gonna go sideways...this is why most street cars have a front biased brake system, the reason why our front brakes are bigger...
SO, the s2000, since its meant to be tracked/raced/blahblah has a higher "target speed/avg speed" they want to be able to slow the car while being controlled, hence the s2000 has a higher "rear bias" compared to normal cars
Ideally, you want 50/50 fr/rr brake bias for BEST "STOPPING" - well, almost 50/50, since weight transfers to the front as you slow down...now try turning while hitting the brakes...with a 50/50 bias, youre gonna go sideways...this is why most street cars have a front biased brake system, the reason why our front brakes are bigger...
SO, the s2000, since its meant to be tracked/raced/blahblah has a higher "target speed/avg speed" they want to be able to slow the car while being controlled, hence the s2000 has a higher "rear bias" compared to normal cars
01-17-2010, 05:10 AM
#7
And also from the factory, you have more rear tire than front. You'd want the wheels with bigger shoes to do their part.
There was an extensive thread discussing this in the R&C in response to noobs that thought they could go ABS-less by just pulling the fuse. Not a good idea. Unless you change the brake bias with pad compounds or by adding additional hydraulic distributors, it becomes a hairy mess at the limit. When an ABS sensor went out, we encountered this first-hand. Not pretty.
There was an extensive thread discussing this in the R&C in response to noobs that thought they could go ABS-less by just pulling the fuse. Not a good idea. Unless you change the brake bias with pad compounds or by adding additional hydraulic distributors, it becomes a hairy mess at the limit. When an ABS sensor went out, we encountered this first-hand. Not pretty.
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01-17-2010, 06:12 AM
#8
I've been without ABS for the past two years/10 or so track days (left rear sensor got damaged when wheel bearings and hub were replaced). The fronts always lock before the rears, in the wet or dry, on street tires or R-compounds (Kumho V700 VictoRacers and V700 Ecstas). With XP8, HP+, and OEM pads.
01-17-2010, 06:48 AM
#9
"ideal" brake bias for an S2000 braking at 1 g is going to be closer to 70% front, 30% rear (nowhere near 50/50), as that's what the front/rear weight distribution will be at that rate of deceleration.
Pre-ABS, cars were all biased to have the front brakes prior to the rears, as this is MUCH safer. If the fronts lock first, you lose steering, but the car remains stable. If the rears lock first, the back end is going to want to come around.
Some modern cars with ABS apparently (only going from anecdotal stories) have REAR bias, where without the ABS functioning, the rears actually lock first. BAD THINGS! Even ABS-equipped cars *should* be designed to have a bit of front bias so that in the event of ABS failure, braking will be stable even with lockup.
But in *my* experience with a no-ABS '01 S2000, there is a front bias, which is appropriate.
Even the most talented drivers in the most advanced race cars will need to have the fronts lock before rears. Years ago, I remember watching Senna adjust the brake bias in his McLaren too much to the rear, and spinning off in the braking zone at the next corner!
Pre-ABS, cars were all biased to have the front brakes prior to the rears, as this is MUCH safer. If the fronts lock first, you lose steering, but the car remains stable. If the rears lock first, the back end is going to want to come around.
Some modern cars with ABS apparently (only going from anecdotal stories) have REAR bias, where without the ABS functioning, the rears actually lock first. BAD THINGS! Even ABS-equipped cars *should* be designed to have a bit of front bias so that in the event of ABS failure, braking will be stable even with lockup.
But in *my* experience with a no-ABS '01 S2000, there is a front bias, which is appropriate.
Even the most talented drivers in the most advanced race cars will need to have the fronts lock before rears. Years ago, I remember watching Senna adjust the brake bias in his McLaren too much to the rear, and spinning off in the braking zone at the next corner!