Hey all,

I'm wondering if the S02's are too compromised for this car on the street. We all know they provide awesome grip, but man, their breakaway characteristics just, well, suck.

I spent a bit of time deliberately coaxing the rear out on some first gear turns in a parking lot, and I've got to say that once the rears lose traction it totally feels like they are on a sheet of ice. Thanks to the car's lightning quick steering, you can catch the car if you suspect the rear is going to step out, but some observations come to mind:

1) There is almost no indication that the tires are about to lose their grip. One minute they are gripping, a fraction of a second later, you're dialing in the opposite lock.

2) Once they are sliding, they appear to offer hardly any grip. I was totally off the gas once the rear came out and it was literally sliding like on ice.

3) I don't think that there is any fundamental problem with the car's chassis. I was going slow enough (under 20mph) that the suspension didn't play a significant role in the breakaway of the car, simply because it wasn't under much load at all.

Anyways, I think I'm going to try a different tire when it comes to a replacement. I'm willing to sacrifice some outright grip for much better at-the-limit feedback, and also the ability to "drift" the car when I want to.

I mean, I can understand why there are all these spinouts, if you are not expecting it, and are moving at a decent speed, the car could potentially really catch you out.

I'm almost completely positive its the rear tires, and not a fundamental flaw in the car.

 

Some reasons above is why I switched over to SO3's plus needed some traction in the rain.

 

I had S03's on my car for a week..Biggest peices of crap I've ever driven on..for this car anyway..I went back and put OEM's on and instantly felt at home.

While its true that the OEM's give little warning when they let go, the limit is so high as it is, that you would be well beyond any other tire anyway.

If safety is the primary concern changing tires would be a good idea...kinda like installing a governor of sorts.

The fact that the tires don't squeel I think is what fools people the most..but you CAN feel when they are going to let go, and doing 4 wheel drifts becomes pretty damn easy with a little practice..but as I said before..you are going wayyyy faster then you should be pulling these manuevers.

You didn't see me on the skid pad at Shannonville this year..I hit the first turn and lapped the circle 8 times in a perfect drift..

I was going to go for the record, untill the instructer said it was held by some farm kid in a Pick Up...162 times around..I figured I needed my rubber more then the lofty title of drift king.

I assume you were parking lot driving recently..as you know our tires need alot of heat to grip properly, and no matter how hot you get them, they just act back asswards when the pavement is cold...

Not sure if you have done any auto-x since you got the car..but that would be the true test..since you aren't trying to lose it..you will see just how it happens when you are concentrating on everything else but...

But like everything iin life these is a compromise..if you want that squeel, the wobble and the 3 second notification that the tires are going to let go..change them out.. if you want the best performance..stick with the S02's.

Trust me in that you will adapt to these tires..and you'll wonder why you even brought it up

Later Rob

 

Sounds like your tires are C*O*L*D. SO-2's do NOT have an all-season compound.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Destiny2002
[B]Sounds like your tires are C*O*L*D.

 

If the rear end suddenly slides out on you it's more likely your technique than the tires. Learn to approach the limit, not just blow past it. I've been using the stock S02's on the track for over two years. It took time to learn the car, become a better driver, and learn the tires, but now I can go extremely fast through corners right at the limits of adhesion of the S02's. Also, first gear is probably a tough gear to approach the limit in since the gearing gives you maximum torque.

 

I just put some R compound Pilot Sport Cup's on. They grip really well, but when they go they go all the way. And no audible warning. I was completely sideways. A lot of unpredictable fun with one lesson learned-ease on and off the throttle. I am putting my all season S-02's back on until the rain subsides.

 

From my experince it is the car and not the tyres. In certain conditions and on certain roads the back is incredibly loose. I have had it step out like I hit grease while doing 25mph and in 3rd gear and at 3/4 throttle. It feels like the tires have picked up oil but there never is any. Also, I have had other tyres on my car besides S02s and it does the same thing.

Not only that but I have also take the car on the track in the wet and the grip was phenomenal ... the speed I could muster around corners was incredible even with the S02s. Not only that but the back was glued to the ground and I could have not asked for more grip in the wet.

As you probably noticed in one paragraph I'm saying how phenomenal the grip is in the wet and in the other I am saying that the car is sliding like on ice while in 3rd gear at 25mph. Odd, isn't it? I have not felt anything like this in any other car (no matter how bad the tyres on it) and to me it feels like the car is giving up at the rear ... not the tyres.

 

S02s are IMO the best tire for the S, that is, once they are warmed up. Being cold and being warmed up makes a night and day difference for the S02s, not sure for other tires, but when I go on runs, it takes a while for them to get warmed up, and once they do, the grip is amazing.

If it's because of it's on and off style that turns you away, it's much better than a slow gradual screeching, like the Kumho Ecsta 712s IMO, it's up to you to intuitively understand the limits of the car, once you do, you can seriously exploit the car's potential, and not be hampered by inferior tires.

Also, what you were doing in the parking lot has a lot to do also with the diff, and the fact that we do not have a multi plate LSD, just a Torsen. Try warming up the tires first, it takes a while, then your experience in the lot might be a little different...

 

How many miles on your car Rob?

My dad now has 10k on his MY01 and the original tires. He drove my MY00 today (he's thinking about getting the Mugen header) and commented how my handling feels much tighter than his. I noted that when I replaced my S02's at 12k miles they still had a little tread, but they had been about as grippy as rocks for a couple thousand miles. My dad's tires are the same way. They're 15 months old and simply heat cycled out (not hard to do in AZ).

If you've got more than 6k-8k miles, my guess is your tires are simply getting old. I loved my S02s when new and felt the recovery characteristics were great, but as they got older they got scarier. The abrupt breakaway isn't an issue when you have grip, but when the tires get hard....

BTW, I highly recommend the Toyo RA1. Similarly priced to the S02s, grippier when hot and dry, and at full tread depth they have excellent wet traction. Might not work for your temp range though. I've got 3k miles and one track event on mine and they look great. Most people I know who run them get 6k-8k and 3-4 track events, which is quite good.

UL