S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

S2000 not for me?

Thread Tools
 
Old Nov 29, 2009 | 05:16 AM
  #31  
bgoetz's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,730
Likes: 56
Default

^^^the 04-05 don't have stability assist, just the 06-09. You can turn VSA off and on, so maybe those are the years for you.

Honestly part of the reason I like these cars so much is how controlable they are, including during oversteer situations. I can see how it must be a bit unnerving it may be especially if you have not driven a RWD car in a while. But trust me, you can get the car pretty sideways before you have any real issues.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2009 | 07:36 AM
  #32  
ace123's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 3
Default

Originally Posted by merckx racer,Nov 29 2009, 07:00 AM
Any solutions to gain more stability from the '02 other than newer tires?
Possibly a wider tire?
A more experinced driver?
Or just stick with the '04 and later model with traction control?
thanks!
All these will work, assuming by tires you mean a reduced stagger.

A few common options to decrease oversteer:
1. Increasing the relative width of rear to front tires / reduce stagger (ie replace the 00-03 fronts with 215 instead of 205 tires while keeping 225 rears) - more grip in front --> more oversteer, more grip in rear --> more understeer
But remember: if your rear tires are shot and fronts are good, you're getting more oversteer because you need new tires! These cars chew up rears about twice as fast as fronts. And it is fast, getting only ~8k-12k miles out of rear tires is common.
2. Increase the front spring rate relative to rear (ie use the CR's springs, Bilstein PSS9 coilovers, others...)
3. Replace the rear anti-roll bar with a stiffer one (same effect as changing relative spring rates)

Of those options, I'd certainly start with tires!

And of course
AP2 (04+) - the newer they are, generally the less tail-happy they are due to suspension revisions (spring rates, tires, and bar are changed every other year)
you can always say more experience can fix the problem, and that's true to a point
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2009 | 07:54 AM
  #33  
merckx racer's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 289
Likes: 1
Default


Thanks bgoetz and ace123....interesting read ace!
I did read somewhere that the AP2 actually don't perform as well
on the skidpad relative to the AP1...something like the AP1 is around
.93 while they could only get .88 from the AP2..
they reasoned this was from reduced spring rates and other changes
like wider rear tires on the AP2.

What I didn't like about the '02 was just doing a 180 turn at pedestrian
speed started me to lose the tail.

Great car though...really love the '02 but might might be a better purchase
to opt for the '06 as it's perfect..needs absolutely nothing...30K less
miles..eye candy...whereas the '02 is going to need around $2K initially
to get tires..remote..antannae..top fixed..rear spoiler etc.

And the '02 is $11500. while the '06 is $18000.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2009 | 08:07 AM
  #34  
CKit's Avatar
Former Moderator
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,729
Likes: 8
Default

If I were you, I'd get the 06 with VSA...
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2009 | 09:44 AM
  #35  
OMG VTEC's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 974
Likes: 9
Default

Originally Posted by merckx racer,Nov 29 2009, 08:54 AM
Thanks bgoetz and ace123....interesting read ace!
I did read somewhere that the AP2 actually don't perform as well
on the skidpad relative to the AP1...something like the AP1 is around
.93 while they could only get .88 from the AP2..
they reasoned this was from reduced spring rates and other changes
like wider rear tires on the AP2.

What I didn't like about the '02 was just doing a 180 turn at pedestrian
speed started me to lose the tail.

Great car though...really love the '02 but might might be a better purchase
to opt for the '06 as it's perfect..needs absolutely nothing...30K less
miles..eye candy...whereas the '02 is going to need around $2K initially
to get tires..remote..antannae..top fixed..rear spoiler etc.

And the '02 is $11500. while the '06 is $18000.
With respect to the skidpad times, the 00-03 cars have much more aggressive/better OEM tires. Skidpad is all about ultimate grip, so the tires are the biggest factor. I'm sure the AP1's aggressive suspension attributes to a little of that.

I used to own an 03' and now own an 07'. They handle the same but different. I love them both, but the 07' is clearly a better car overall.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2009 | 09:47 AM
  #36  
ace123's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 3
Default

Originally Posted by CKit,Nov 29 2009, 11:07 AM
If I were you, I'd get the 06 with VSA...


they made big changes to the OE tires in 2004, so a skidpad comparison doesn't really work. if you want to pull more g's on the skidpad, swap the tires for a set of re-01r's or dunlop direzza z1 star specs--they cost about the same as the stock tires but are a fair bit stickier (they posted 0.97g or 0.99g static on tire rack's tests if i remember right). they'll put a wide smile on your face and wider tires are generally going to increase grip, not decrease it.

but the 06+ cars are a little safer to learn on due to the stability /traction control (fully defeatable--great safety feature). they're also better in the winter. and by the way, if you drive where and when it snows, you MUST get snow tires for this car.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2009 | 10:33 AM
  #37  
merckx racer's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 289
Likes: 1
Default

Originally Posted by CKit,Nov 29 2009, 09:07 AM
If I were you, I'd get the 06 with VSA...
Thanks for info...
yeah I'm leaning towards the '06...just think it's a
better investment even though it's more expensive.

The interior is nice...it's a better fit for me..a bit more leg
room...I just feel more comfortable in it.

ace123...in the articel I read comparing AP1 to AP2 suspensions
they did mention the spring/tire changes on the AP2 induced
understeer sao the front tires would fail before the rear..thus
keeping better control of the rear-end.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2009 | 10:40 AM
  #38  
CKit's Avatar
Former Moderator
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,729
Likes: 8
Default

Remember, you can make any car understeer like a dump truck by overdriving.

I wouldn't get into mag racing until you get a little more high-revving RWD experience under your belt.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
6sigma
S2000 Talk
129
Mar 14, 2015 08:42 AM
xxForgedxx
S2000 Talk
21
Aug 29, 2008 04:04 PM
racerxjon
S2000 Talk
41
Apr 19, 2005 02:10 PM
kmagnuss_2000
S2000 Street Encounters
3
Feb 17, 2005 11:24 AM
1FastS2k
California - Southern California S2000 Owners
1
Oct 17, 2004 10:10 AM




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:55 AM.