s2000 spin out
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From: Culpeper Virginia
S2000's have no idea what severe snap oversteer feels like.
Try driving a 1991 Toyota MR2-Turbo on stock suspension.
Not only is there a 60%+ rear weight bias but if you lift throttle or brake mid-corner you get weight shift plus the rear alignment goes from toe-in to toe-out in a split second. I put my MR2 in a ditch because of this going 40 mph around a corner in a normal spirited drive....deer ran in front of me, lifted throttle...boom.
Try driving a 1991 Toyota MR2-Turbo on stock suspension.
Not only is there a 60%+ rear weight bias but if you lift throttle or brake mid-corner you get weight shift plus the rear alignment goes from toe-in to toe-out in a split second. I put my MR2 in a ditch because of this going 40 mph around a corner in a normal spirited drive....deer ran in front of me, lifted throttle...boom.
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From: Monterey, CA
Originally Posted by mdy,Oct 13 2010, 05:35 PM
"... certain owners had discovered inappropriate vehicle rotation at the point of disappearing talent…" Barry Winfield of Car and Driver Magazine
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From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by s2cho,Oct 14 2010, 07:28 PM
6th: if im going to get in a situation when someone cuts me off... just hit them and dont try to aviod cause theres always a beast curb right next to you with a bunch of signs...
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From: SF Bay Area
Not sure what this thread is about now...so i will comment on whatever part of it is relevant...i drove thunderhill, and spun on that turn!!! three times...the first time i pulled a 360 and didnot leave the track...the next time I went with an instructor and only did a 180 and did not leave the track...the third time i recovered and learned how not to spin the car...all this done in the rain.....
The car won't spin unless the driver makes a mistake...gas on or off at the right/wrong time can to it...you really need to be more than 50% through a turn before doing anything with the gas...slightly slow down to plan the front tires, then slip through the apex, apply power as soon as the rear is around the apex....use the weight on the front wheels to streer the car through the turn....it takes practice...the car can tend to oversteer at the drop of a hat...and that turn is one that many miss untill mastered.
it is not the car...it is the driver....this car handles very very well, street or track...sure unexpected things happen.
The car won't spin unless the driver makes a mistake...gas on or off at the right/wrong time can to it...you really need to be more than 50% through a turn before doing anything with the gas...slightly slow down to plan the front tires, then slip through the apex, apply power as soon as the rear is around the apex....use the weight on the front wheels to streer the car through the turn....it takes practice...the car can tend to oversteer at the drop of a hat...and that turn is one that many miss untill mastered.
it is not the car...it is the driver....this car handles very very well, street or track...sure unexpected things happen.
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This thread delivers!
Another thing to add is drive defensively, especially in a small car like the s2000. There are alot of bad drivers out there, so drive assuming every car around u is a retard. Don't drive in people's blindspots, even though you know ur gonna be right if they hit u, stuff like this happens all the time.
And yes, I have almost spun my s before on a straight slightly upward slope onramp right after a rain, gunned it to cuz I have VTEC YO! next thing I knew I was facing the car to the right to me, I didnt lift, just slowly backed it off as I countersteered, I pendulumed about 3 times and wound up straight, kept it inside my lane and didnt hit anything around me. The look on the maxima driver's face was epic the two times I faced his car btw, but man did I feel bad for scaring the piss out of him. Now I'm not the best driver in the world, but you gotta learn the difference between rwd and fwd, gotta learn to respect it which I'm sure you are now. Kinda sexy though isnt it, knowing that you're keeping ur car in check knowing that it can kill u in a moment's notice? lol.
Another thing to add is drive defensively, especially in a small car like the s2000. There are alot of bad drivers out there, so drive assuming every car around u is a retard. Don't drive in people's blindspots, even though you know ur gonna be right if they hit u, stuff like this happens all the time.
And yes, I have almost spun my s before on a straight slightly upward slope onramp right after a rain, gunned it to cuz I have VTEC YO! next thing I knew I was facing the car to the right to me, I didnt lift, just slowly backed it off as I countersteered, I pendulumed about 3 times and wound up straight, kept it inside my lane and didnt hit anything around me. The look on the maxima driver's face was epic the two times I faced his car btw, but man did I feel bad for scaring the piss out of him. Now I'm not the best driver in the world, but you gotta learn the difference between rwd and fwd, gotta learn to respect it which I'm sure you are now. Kinda sexy though isnt it, knowing that you're keeping ur car in check knowing that it can kill u in a moment's notice? lol.
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Originally Posted by Chris S,Oct 14 2010, 11:11 PM
Sounds to me like you've assembled most of your "knowledge" by reading vs. in the real world.
My NC until recently was running 235/40-17 Nitto NT-01's, and I can slide it w/ abandon, it always comes back. Same thing w/ UK Exotics' NC on Hoosiers - it has really high grip levels, but doesn't just go careering backwards when traction is exceeded. My old Cayman S didn't have snap oversteer, either. These cars also have quick turn-in and responsiveness, but are also stable. IMO, it has a lot to do w/ how well the front and rear grip are balanced, and I suspect better mass centralization also helps to reduce snap oversteer.
So yes, you can have responsive handling w/o snap oversteer. I suspect the AP1's snap oversteer tendencies have something to do w/ the rear suspension design/geometry.
Regardless, I drove the crap out of 2 AP1's over 6+ years, including track days. Only 1 spin, which was on a closed airport runway when someone wanted me to demonstrate the power of my Vortech S/C I had at the time. The car is fine when driven w/ smooth throttle modulation. Snap oversteer is usually attributable to chopping the throttle after the driver suddenly concludes he's going too fast for a given corner.
My NC until recently was running 235/40-17 Nitto NT-01's, and I can slide it w/ abandon, it always comes back. Same thing w/ UK Exotics' NC on Hoosiers - it has really high grip levels, but doesn't just go careering backwards when traction is exceeded. My old Cayman S didn't have snap oversteer, either. These cars also have quick turn-in and responsiveness, but are also stable. IMO, it has a lot to do w/ how well the front and rear grip are balanced, and I suspect better mass centralization also helps to reduce snap oversteer.
So yes, you can have responsive handling w/o snap oversteer. I suspect the AP1's snap oversteer tendencies have something to do w/ the rear suspension design/geometry.
Regardless, I drove the crap out of 2 AP1's over 6+ years, including track days. Only 1 spin, which was on a closed airport runway when someone wanted me to demonstrate the power of my Vortech S/C I had at the time. The car is fine when driven w/ smooth throttle modulation. Snap oversteer is usually attributable to chopping the throttle after the driver suddenly concludes he's going too fast for a given corner.
Gotta keep in mind that the whole concept of "snap oversteer" is relative. What's snap for one person is easily controllable for someone else. Compared to an F1 car, an S2000 is incredibly slow to break loose. You yourself mentioned you have no problems handling the car (spinning it once in two years), so your ability to control your other cars doesn't say much. Still, I agree that fat tires doesn't necessarily make a car difficult to control/quick to break loose at the limit. There are many other factors that influence it: yaw inertia, distance between the center of gravity and the roll center in regards to the car as a whole and the front and rear axles, how much of your weight transfer is geometric vs. sprung, etc. My point was that, holding other variables constant, and fatty tires will break loose faster than skinny tires. It's simply a product of contact patches and how they affect slip angles.
All that said, you're no doubt correct that most times this happens in real life can be attributed to driver error and not the way the car is set up.
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From: Longmont, CO
I've done things in my AP1 S2000 that have led to spins that I've also done in an AP2 S2000, a RWD open-diff pickup truck, an Integra GSR, a Boxster S and the same AP1 S2000 with a Whiteline front swaybar that did not lead to a spin.
Would I classify those spins in the AP1 as "snap"?
I dunno, but some were too fast for me to catch so take it for what it's worth. I've also done some great drifting-style slides, under control, in the AP1 S2000 in stock trim.
Ultimately, it's the driver's responsibility to know the limits and behavior of their car, and not go beyond those limits on the street. A spin in an S2000 is never the car's "fault." A contributing factor, yes, but it's the driver who's ultimately did it - S2000s do not spin while sitting turned off in driveways.
Would I classify those spins in the AP1 as "snap"?
I dunno, but some were too fast for me to catch so take it for what it's worth. I've also done some great drifting-style slides, under control, in the AP1 S2000 in stock trim.Ultimately, it's the driver's responsibility to know the limits and behavior of their car, and not go beyond those limits on the street. A spin in an S2000 is never the car's "fault." A contributing factor, yes, but it's the driver who's ultimately did it - S2000s do not spin while sitting turned off in driveways.
