Scarlet's New Rotors...PICS!
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From: On the lakefront...
Originally posted by Clark
Greg,
Next time you have to do that job here's a little trick for those two damn screws:
1. First try using either a phillips head socket or a phillips screwdriver without a handle (so it's more like a chisel), place it in the screw and bang on it a few times with a hammer. This will most likely break the layer of corrosion that causes them to be such a pain in the ass.
2. If this doesn't loosen them so that you can remove them easily and normally you need to resort to a chisel. Get a chisel (a flathead screwdriver will not do), use it to notch the screw near the outer perimeter of the screw's head, and then use the chisel and a hammer to loosen the screw by placing the chisel in the notch and pounding it out (counter clockwise of course).
It seems so simple, but after trying to drill one out like you did it occurred to me to call my uncle (the 18 year Honda/Acura Master Mechanic) and ask him how to do it (duh!).
Clark
Greg,
Next time you have to do that job here's a little trick for those two damn screws:
1. First try using either a phillips head socket or a phillips screwdriver without a handle (so it's more like a chisel), place it in the screw and bang on it a few times with a hammer. This will most likely break the layer of corrosion that causes them to be such a pain in the ass.
2. If this doesn't loosen them so that you can remove them easily and normally you need to resort to a chisel. Get a chisel (a flathead screwdriver will not do), use it to notch the screw near the outer perimeter of the screw's head, and then use the chisel and a hammer to loosen the screw by placing the chisel in the notch and pounding it out (counter clockwise of course).
It seems so simple, but after trying to drill one out like you did it occurred to me to call my uncle (the 18 year Honda/Acura Master Mechanic) and ask him how to do it (duh!).
Clark
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From: Irvine
They look great. A couple of other questions. 1) Are these cast/molded with the hole/vent pattern or first cast then drilled and vented? This will anser the question regarding cracking. 2) Are they left/right specific? This was my biggest gripe about the Spoon rotors. They are an excellent product, other than the fact that you will have one rotor melting while the other one is chilling in a nce breeze (you know what i mean).
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From: On the lakefront...
F1 Trainer, I don't have the answer to your questions. Perhaps Giampiero can speak to the manufacturing process.
And no, they are not left right specific...I know what you are talking about with the Spoon rotors, though. This is not the case with these...
And no, they are not left right specific...I know what you are talking about with the Spoon rotors, though. This is not the case with these...
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From: Irvine
Thanks for clarifying that. Yes, we are talking about the samething. I was confused because this is what I meant by asking if they were left/right specific. The fins on the left and right are oriented in a way that the maximum air flow is picked up. In other words, the fins on either side are oriented in the same direction rather than opposite (hence, the Spoon situation).
Giamperio, let us know about the manufacturing process.
Giamperio, let us know about the manufacturing process.
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From: Defiance
hey Greg,
Are the rear rotors solid or vented like the fronts (have internal vanes)?
Also, those screws are not "philips" head they are #3"pozi drive" and the impact tool you are refering to is called a "impact driver". If you thought they were hard to get out now, wait a few years.
Another note for a previous question- rotors don't "scoop" air, they "throw" the air from the center to the edge of the rotor. If the vents are curved, they are unidirectional and must be installed on the proper side. When looking at the rotor from the side of the car the vanes towards the front of the car will curve up from the center of the rotor.
If the vanes are straight then they can be mounted on either side of the car.
[Edited by Roceye on 04-24-2001 at 05:37 PM]
Are the rear rotors solid or vented like the fronts (have internal vanes)?
Also, those screws are not "philips" head they are #3"pozi drive" and the impact tool you are refering to is called a "impact driver". If you thought they were hard to get out now, wait a few years.
Another note for a previous question- rotors don't "scoop" air, they "throw" the air from the center to the edge of the rotor. If the vents are curved, they are unidirectional and must be installed on the proper side. When looking at the rotor from the side of the car the vanes towards the front of the car will curve up from the center of the rotor.
If the vanes are straight then they can be mounted on either side of the car.
[Edited by Roceye on 04-24-2001 at 05:37 PM]
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I would like to offer a few observations and questions based on not having seen them in person just what I see here.
The drilled hole pattern and the slots are curved. Generally, this pattern matches the vents inside and is directional. Think of it in terms of a spiral. Rotate it in one direction and it winds up. Rotate it the other way and it unwinds. Based on this, I'd say these are directional.
Another post stated that these are made from a "space aged material" called ergal. I did a search on the Internet and found that ergal is a grade of aluminum that known here in the USA as 7075-T6. It is a very high grade of aluminum. We use it for some of the NSX racing brakes we build. I can see where this material would be used for the brake hat, but cannot be used for the friction surface portion of the brakes, ie. the "rotor" part. The rotor itself would need to be made of steel or cast iron. I'd guess that it's cast iron because it's a much better rotor material than steel is. Obviously they cad plated (or something similar) the rotor for rust resistance. It's reasonably durable, but I couldn't consider it to be rust proof. We always recommend removing such a plating from the surface where the pad rides so that it won't burn into the pad material as it wears off.
Assuming I were mistaken in my observations of these rotor and they were made of something really high tech, the only options I am aware of would be ceramic coated aluminum, or beryllium, or carbon-carbon. Carbon-carbon is obviously not it based on price if nothing else(think tens of thousands of $$). Beryllium wouldn't be it either because of price (see carbon-carbon) and health issues. It's real bad for the human body which is one reason F1 outlawed it. Ceramic coated aluminum is probably not it either based on price. Porsche has started using them but price is definitely in the thousands.
How is the rotor attached to the hat? Is it bolted directly to the hat or do they use a bobbin? Hopefully they use a bobbin since it will allow the rotor to float and grow at a different rate than the aluminum will grow when they get hot. If they are bolted directly together, then they will self destruct when subject to very high temps as seen on the race track.
Hope these comments and questions help you determine whether these brakes will do the job and whether they are a good value.
Disclaimer-I am making absolutely no judgement on this product, only offering some of my knowledge based on experience.
The drilled hole pattern and the slots are curved. Generally, this pattern matches the vents inside and is directional. Think of it in terms of a spiral. Rotate it in one direction and it winds up. Rotate it the other way and it unwinds. Based on this, I'd say these are directional.
Another post stated that these are made from a "space aged material" called ergal. I did a search on the Internet and found that ergal is a grade of aluminum that known here in the USA as 7075-T6. It is a very high grade of aluminum. We use it for some of the NSX racing brakes we build. I can see where this material would be used for the brake hat, but cannot be used for the friction surface portion of the brakes, ie. the "rotor" part. The rotor itself would need to be made of steel or cast iron. I'd guess that it's cast iron because it's a much better rotor material than steel is. Obviously they cad plated (or something similar) the rotor for rust resistance. It's reasonably durable, but I couldn't consider it to be rust proof. We always recommend removing such a plating from the surface where the pad rides so that it won't burn into the pad material as it wears off.
Assuming I were mistaken in my observations of these rotor and they were made of something really high tech, the only options I am aware of would be ceramic coated aluminum, or beryllium, or carbon-carbon. Carbon-carbon is obviously not it based on price if nothing else(think tens of thousands of $$). Beryllium wouldn't be it either because of price (see carbon-carbon) and health issues. It's real bad for the human body which is one reason F1 outlawed it. Ceramic coated aluminum is probably not it either based on price. Porsche has started using them but price is definitely in the thousands.
How is the rotor attached to the hat? Is it bolted directly to the hat or do they use a bobbin? Hopefully they use a bobbin since it will allow the rotor to float and grow at a different rate than the aluminum will grow when they get hot. If they are bolted directly together, then they will self destruct when subject to very high temps as seen on the race track.
Hope these comments and questions help you determine whether these brakes will do the job and whether they are a good value.
Disclaimer-I am making absolutely no judgement on this product, only offering some of my knowledge based on experience.