SEV Power - Are we overlooking something in the US?
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Houston
One more thing instead of searching on SEV. Search on magnets and oxygen..
Here is an explanation of what is going on - I think???
The Answer
Here is an explanation of what is going on - I think???
The Answer
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 422
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From: Delray Beach
Thank you for your response LewKeim, it is probably a good idea to do searches on magnets and oxygen rather than SEV. In the mean time, I will be posting e-mail responses as they come back. The following is an e-mail response from Racing Craft
Dear Dave
Sorry for the delay on my response.
No I have not conducted dyno test. Reason is the manual which came with Racing version of SEV states the following:
The power change from SEV can only measured by axle (drive shaft) power check. (The dyno pack made in New).
The roller type (like bosch) does not produce a correct result. SEV does not increase the power by any mechanical change. SEV increases the power by ionizing the air and by reduces the energy loss at the combustion.
Like a computer is influenced by magnetism, SEV is also very sensitive to magnetism. Roller type dyno makes a magnetosphere when the motor is run at high speed. The energy of SEV will be impacted or reduced by that
magnetic field.
That is basically the sum of what is written. And I have not found any shop which has dyno pack around this area. So at this point, I have to believe what my friends (J's racing told me) and what is written in SEV's manual.
SEV's manual states (by using SEV racing version), the power of S2000 increased whopping 31.3 hp.
I am attaching a copy of the manual.
Sorry I could not give you the answer you would like to know. However, J's racing has dyno pack and at this point there is no reason I should not believe them. Also, I you wrote, in Japan, most of the cars in Civic racing has SEV. That fact itself testifies something. If it does not work, why a racing team spend more than $3,000 to have SEV.
The data of SEV regular vesion is provided by J's racing.
If there are any questions regarding SEV, I will be happy to ask J's racing. Please let me know.
Thank you very much for your interest in the J's racing products.
Yasu / Racing craft
----- Original Message -----
From: <celani@bellsouth.net>
To: <yfukui@racingcraft.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 6:57 AM
Subject: Racing Craft Website Visitor Comment
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> Name: Dave Celani
>> >
> Comment: I am asking a second time for information about SEV for my Honda S2000. I see SEV mounted on many racing cars in Japan but there is little information available here in the US. Have you dynoed it? Used with an MG Racing CAI, Mugen exhaust manifold and Mugen exhaust, could I actually pick up 6 - 10 HP for $750? I'm very interested, please forward any results you know of - THANK YOU
>
> B1: Submit
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-The following link is to J's published results for the S2000, RX7 and BMW 318;
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u...&p=52830410&f=0
Dear Dave
Sorry for the delay on my response.
No I have not conducted dyno test. Reason is the manual which came with Racing version of SEV states the following:
The power change from SEV can only measured by axle (drive shaft) power check. (The dyno pack made in New).
The roller type (like bosch) does not produce a correct result. SEV does not increase the power by any mechanical change. SEV increases the power by ionizing the air and by reduces the energy loss at the combustion.
Like a computer is influenced by magnetism, SEV is also very sensitive to magnetism. Roller type dyno makes a magnetosphere when the motor is run at high speed. The energy of SEV will be impacted or reduced by that
magnetic field.
That is basically the sum of what is written. And I have not found any shop which has dyno pack around this area. So at this point, I have to believe what my friends (J's racing told me) and what is written in SEV's manual.
SEV's manual states (by using SEV racing version), the power of S2000 increased whopping 31.3 hp.
I am attaching a copy of the manual.
Sorry I could not give you the answer you would like to know. However, J's racing has dyno pack and at this point there is no reason I should not believe them. Also, I you wrote, in Japan, most of the cars in Civic racing has SEV. That fact itself testifies something. If it does not work, why a racing team spend more than $3,000 to have SEV.
The data of SEV regular vesion is provided by J's racing.
If there are any questions regarding SEV, I will be happy to ask J's racing. Please let me know.
Thank you very much for your interest in the J's racing products.
Yasu / Racing craft
----- Original Message -----
From: <celani@bellsouth.net>
To: <yfukui@racingcraft.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 6:57 AM
Subject: Racing Craft Website Visitor Comment
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> Name: Dave Celani
>> >
> Comment: I am asking a second time for information about SEV for my Honda S2000. I see SEV mounted on many racing cars in Japan but there is little information available here in the US. Have you dynoed it? Used with an MG Racing CAI, Mugen exhaust manifold and Mugen exhaust, could I actually pick up 6 - 10 HP for $750? I'm very interested, please forward any results you know of - THANK YOU
>
> B1: Submit
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-The following link is to J's published results for the S2000, RX7 and BMW 318;
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u...&p=52830410&f=0
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 422
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From: Delray Beach
The world is flat! - How can anyone say the world is round when we can see the edge of it on the horizion......and I'll give any idiot who's willing to go sailing off the end of it 10 francs.........oh wait, that was a very old thread and this is here and now.
It is easy to be critical of anything we don't yet understand and we could easily get 500 posts like that. We need objective data and real time experience to base an educated nay or yeah. J's Racing is ceditable, but they stand to make financial gain, any chemist or physicists with the ability to dispell or confirm the basic theory?
It is easy to be critical of anything we don't yet understand and we could easily get 500 posts like that. We need objective data and real time experience to base an educated nay or yeah. J's Racing is ceditable, but they stand to make financial gain, any chemist or physicists with the ability to dispell or confirm the basic theory?
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,371
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From: newport beach
OK, I read the promotional piece www.racingcraft.com/js-products-sev.shtml
Ï
Now I understand.
SEV uses a "radium" impregnated ring which "ionizes" the intake charge. Seems to me that you'd need to bombard fast moving intake gasses with a very powerful beam of ionizing radiation to achieve anything like what SEV is claiming happens.
Folks, this is nonsense. If it worked, your car would glow in the dark and the driver's hair and teeth would fall out shortly before organ failure and death.
I particular like the fact that the effect is not measurable on a dyno. Doesn't that say everything you need to hear?
AS to the proposition that some racers use it so it must be good, I'm reminded of my favorite graffiti from CCNY.
"Eat sh!t! 60 Trillion flies can't ALL be wrong!"
Ï
Now I understand.
SEV uses a "radium" impregnated ring which "ionizes" the intake charge. Seems to me that you'd need to bombard fast moving intake gasses with a very powerful beam of ionizing radiation to achieve anything like what SEV is claiming happens.
Folks, this is nonsense. If it worked, your car would glow in the dark and the driver's hair and teeth would fall out shortly before organ failure and death.
I particular like the fact that the effect is not measurable on a dyno. Doesn't that say everything you need to hear?
AS to the proposition that some racers use it so it must be good, I'm reminded of my favorite graffiti from CCNY.
"Eat sh!t! 60 Trillion flies can't ALL be wrong!"
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 7,134
Likes: 3
From: Columbia, MD
All right, I'll try and attack these in the order they come to mind...
The SEV system claims the need to use several thousands of Gauss for magnet strengths to achieve their "magic". A dyno does NOT produce anywhere NEAR that kind of magnetic field in operation, or at any other time. If it did, those floppy disks in the laptops grabbing info half of the time would be wiped clean.
It would take an incredibly strong magnetic field to ionize oxygen molecules, and it's been pointed out several times now...if it was the radiation that did it, we'd all be losing our hair a few days after installing it. not to mention the fact that those radiated magnets are quite cheap to produce, and don't you think Honda would have considered their use for a price in crease of $10-$20 for a whopping 31.3 HP? (sorry, logical fallacy, but it had to be said).
Magnets of this low strength could only polarize, not ionize, molecules. If I remember my chemistry/physics correctly, oxygen only really becomes polar in liquid form, so that's out (any chemists back me up on that one?).
Again, if I remember correctly, magnets lose their magnetivity in an exponential(?) fashion as they approach their Curie temp, so extended periods under the hood, even WITH insulation, would decrease the system's effectiveness over time.
The "answer" quotes the following:
"This fact that dust particles after magnetization are finer than those usually found, which in turn, means that oil particles are made finer by the magnetizing treatment of these devices."
This is a VERY poor conclusion and an even WORSE "logical" jump...just because dust particle emissions are smaller does NOT mean oil particle emissions will be. In fact, they obviously didn't even TEST this conclusion...oil will most certainly act in a different manner than dust particles.
It also claimed the following:
"80% -90% Reduction in Hydrocarbon emissions.
60% -80% Reduction in Carbon Monoxide emissions.
20% Reduction in Nitrogen Oxides.
10% - 40% in Consume Reduction.
8% - 60% in Increase Mileage."
HOLY SMOKE, a 90% decrease in HC emissions and up to 60% increase in mileage? This is starting to sound a LOT like cold fusion here boys and girls...and we all know what happened to THAT miracle energy cure...
My conclusion? Just because 5 million racers spent good money on a product they don't understand does NOT mean it works...it only means SEV has an active marketing department. The physical basis behind the increase of fuel/air mixture IS sound, but this product can NOT accomplish that task.
In fact, I would expect more of a performance result from an electrostatically-charged wire mesh place in the air stream which WILL ionize the air. It would have to be powerful enough to charge such a fast-flowing charge of air, but it makes more sense from a product standpoint.
The SEV system claims the need to use several thousands of Gauss for magnet strengths to achieve their "magic". A dyno does NOT produce anywhere NEAR that kind of magnetic field in operation, or at any other time. If it did, those floppy disks in the laptops grabbing info half of the time would be wiped clean.
It would take an incredibly strong magnetic field to ionize oxygen molecules, and it's been pointed out several times now...if it was the radiation that did it, we'd all be losing our hair a few days after installing it. not to mention the fact that those radiated magnets are quite cheap to produce, and don't you think Honda would have considered their use for a price in crease of $10-$20 for a whopping 31.3 HP? (sorry, logical fallacy, but it had to be said).
Magnets of this low strength could only polarize, not ionize, molecules. If I remember my chemistry/physics correctly, oxygen only really becomes polar in liquid form, so that's out (any chemists back me up on that one?).
Again, if I remember correctly, magnets lose their magnetivity in an exponential(?) fashion as they approach their Curie temp, so extended periods under the hood, even WITH insulation, would decrease the system's effectiveness over time.
The "answer" quotes the following:
"This fact that dust particles after magnetization are finer than those usually found, which in turn, means that oil particles are made finer by the magnetizing treatment of these devices."
This is a VERY poor conclusion and an even WORSE "logical" jump...just because dust particle emissions are smaller does NOT mean oil particle emissions will be. In fact, they obviously didn't even TEST this conclusion...oil will most certainly act in a different manner than dust particles.
It also claimed the following:
"80% -90% Reduction in Hydrocarbon emissions.
60% -80% Reduction in Carbon Monoxide emissions.
20% Reduction in Nitrogen Oxides.
10% - 40% in Consume Reduction.
8% - 60% in Increase Mileage."
HOLY SMOKE, a 90% decrease in HC emissions and up to 60% increase in mileage? This is starting to sound a LOT like cold fusion here boys and girls...and we all know what happened to THAT miracle energy cure...
My conclusion? Just because 5 million racers spent good money on a product they don't understand does NOT mean it works...it only means SEV has an active marketing department. The physical basis behind the increase of fuel/air mixture IS sound, but this product can NOT accomplish that task.
In fact, I would expect more of a performance result from an electrostatically-charged wire mesh place in the air stream which WILL ionize the air. It would have to be powerful enough to charge such a fast-flowing charge of air, but it makes more sense from a product standpoint.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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From: You wish
I got a real kick out of the unmeasurable on the dyno comment. A Dynapack dynamometer (which I have the spec sheets for on my desk in front of me) is a hydraulic system that does indeed bolt to the axle. However, a Dynojet, which is an inertia type dyno, does not create a significant magnetic field. Simply spinning a metal drum with a torque sensor/accelerometer attached doesn't create the kind of flux necessary to affect anything but specialized measurement tools. A Clayton or Bosche, because they use an electrical load to manage the drums might, but a Dynojet certainly wouldn't.
This would also tell me that perhaps the magnetic field on the dyno is messing with our cars' performance too ;-). And I also wonder how much flux we're getting from our alternators? Sure don't want to get the SEV too close to that either (oops, it's right below the throttle body!).
As already stated, I'm 99% sure that this is bogus. Sometimes things will surprise you, but folks who cannot provide scientifically documented evidence and have reasons why their product cannot be measured are the most suspect. It is not difficult to perform dynamometer testing, instrumented acceleration testing, airflow sampling and emissions testing. These are all things that are well understood. And if one of these things was good for 30 hp on an S2K, you can bet the improvements in testing would exceed and margin of error and would be statistically significant. One only need look back at all the fuel catalyzers and conditioners that have been sold over the years and wonder why there has never been any real documented evidence that they work.
UL
This would also tell me that perhaps the magnetic field on the dyno is messing with our cars' performance too ;-). And I also wonder how much flux we're getting from our alternators? Sure don't want to get the SEV too close to that either (oops, it's right below the throttle body!).
As already stated, I'm 99% sure that this is bogus. Sometimes things will surprise you, but folks who cannot provide scientifically documented evidence and have reasons why their product cannot be measured are the most suspect. It is not difficult to perform dynamometer testing, instrumented acceleration testing, airflow sampling and emissions testing. These are all things that are well understood. And if one of these things was good for 30 hp on an S2K, you can bet the improvements in testing would exceed and margin of error and would be statistically significant. One only need look back at all the fuel catalyzers and conditioners that have been sold over the years and wonder why there has never been any real documented evidence that they work.
UL
