StonGard's response to the message board
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Palm Springs
Originally posted by Sev
To those people that keep saying there must have been something wrong with SCS2ks lenses beforehand since this has not happened to others.
HOW do you know??? Is there someone who keeps statistics on the number of problems occured. If it happened to the s2000 community which is small, and the number of people who used stonegard, even smaller, how do you know if many others havn't had the problem and remained silent or had the dealer replace them?
To those people that keep saying there must have been something wrong with SCS2ks lenses beforehand since this has not happened to others.
HOW do you know??? Is there someone who keeps statistics on the number of problems occured. If it happened to the s2000 community which is small, and the number of people who used stonegard, even smaller, how do you know if many others havn't had the problem and remained silent or had the dealer replace them?
Does anyone know if this topic has been posted on any other car forums? It would be interesting to find out if this problem has been discussed by owners of other cars who've purchased the StonGard product.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Poconos
Wow, this thread is a poor representation of the StonGard company. For the CEO to beat his chest rather than fix the problem shows poor judgement. Even in the product didn't damage the car the bad press alone could shut its doors.
I'll never buy or recommend this product.
I'll never buy or recommend this product.
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Joined: May 2001
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From: Houston
I have some observations:
Stretching the Stongard while installing can be eliminated as a possible cause of the crazing of the lenses.
Firstly, the modulus of elasticity (stiffness) of the Stongard material is less than the lenses. In addition, the Stongard is much thinner than the lenses. Therefore, the Stongard will follow the lead of the lens, so to speak.
Secondly, crazing is a form of cracking common to certain polymers. Crazing cannot occur when a polymer is in compression. If the Stongard is stretched prior to application the lens will be placed in permanent compression.
Also, I have seen other lenses craze that did not have Stongard applied. What is the percentage? I do not know, but I do know that if 1/500 (per Stongard/Audi) is correct then the possibility of both failing is 1/250000. Not likely, but remotely possible.
Maybe the installer cleaned the lenses with a material that is damaging to the polymer. I am not sure, but I believe ammonia will cause crazing within days of being applied to polycarbonate (possible material for the lenses). Ammonia is an ingredient in most glass cleaners like Windex.
Finally, on a moral note, the S2K owner that had the problem was positive that the Stongard was responsible and the lenses were not defective. Yet when Stongard refused to replace the lenses the owner suckered Honda into paying for the repair. Not exactly ethical.
[Edited by babylou on 05-20-2001 at 09:24 PM]
Stretching the Stongard while installing can be eliminated as a possible cause of the crazing of the lenses.
Firstly, the modulus of elasticity (stiffness) of the Stongard material is less than the lenses. In addition, the Stongard is much thinner than the lenses. Therefore, the Stongard will follow the lead of the lens, so to speak.
Secondly, crazing is a form of cracking common to certain polymers. Crazing cannot occur when a polymer is in compression. If the Stongard is stretched prior to application the lens will be placed in permanent compression.
Also, I have seen other lenses craze that did not have Stongard applied. What is the percentage? I do not know, but I do know that if 1/500 (per Stongard/Audi) is correct then the possibility of both failing is 1/250000. Not likely, but remotely possible.
Maybe the installer cleaned the lenses with a material that is damaging to the polymer. I am not sure, but I believe ammonia will cause crazing within days of being applied to polycarbonate (possible material for the lenses). Ammonia is an ingredient in most glass cleaners like Windex.
Finally, on a moral note, the S2K owner that had the problem was positive that the Stongard was responsible and the lenses were not defective. Yet when Stongard refused to replace the lenses the owner suckered Honda into paying for the repair. Not exactly ethical.
[Edited by babylou on 05-20-2001 at 09:24 PM]
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,762
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From: Sheridan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by stongard
[B]My name is Tim Heikell. I am the President and founder of StonGard.
When we looked into the problem with Audi, we were told that Audi's acceptable failure rate was 1 in 500.
[B]My name is Tim Heikell. I am the President and founder of StonGard.
When we looked into the problem with Audi, we were told that Audi's acceptable failure rate was 1 in 500.
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Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Somewhere in SE Michigan
[QUOTE]"Firstly, the modulus of elasticity (stiffness) of the Stongard material is less than the lenses. In addition, the Stongard is much thinner than the lenses. Therefore, the Stongard will follow the lead of the lens, so to speak.
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From: Phoenix
Babylou,
Thank you for the lesson in morality. You are right, it was ethically wrong of me to ask Honda to replace my lights knowing (in my opinion) that Ston Gard was at fault. I have yet to have Honda do the work. When or if they do, I will inform them, before any work is done, that I did have Ston Gard on the lenses and that I believe it to be the cause of the cracking. If they still will replace them under warranty, wonderful. If not, I guess I'll have to pay for those clear corners I've always wanted but couldn't justify the expense.
Please don't judge my actions until you have been placed in my situation. My initial reaction (to have Honda fix it) was wrong. I have since corrected that.
As you stated, ammonia may have caused the cracking. The only ammonia applied to these lenses was applied by the installer. A representative of Ston Gard. Would they not then be responsible? Where is your moral outrage or judgement of their behavior?
Thank you for the lesson in morality. You are right, it was ethically wrong of me to ask Honda to replace my lights knowing (in my opinion) that Ston Gard was at fault. I have yet to have Honda do the work. When or if they do, I will inform them, before any work is done, that I did have Ston Gard on the lenses and that I believe it to be the cause of the cracking. If they still will replace them under warranty, wonderful. If not, I guess I'll have to pay for those clear corners I've always wanted but couldn't justify the expense.
Please don't judge my actions until you have been placed in my situation. My initial reaction (to have Honda fix it) was wrong. I have since corrected that.
As you stated, ammonia may have caused the cracking. The only ammonia applied to these lenses was applied by the installer. A representative of Ston Gard. Would they not then be responsible? Where is your moral outrage or judgement of their behavior?
