Very interesting...

 

[QUOTE=Back-cracker,Jan 17 2005, 04:18 PM]Are you guys happy?

 

[QUOTE=Warren J. Dew,Jan 17 2005, 08:57 PM] I am - thanks very much.

What's interesting to me is that these graphs seem to show almost the opposite of what people seem to be professing here.

The 2003 has a broader region of peak torque - basically the top 1/3 of the rpm range.

 

Here, I overlayed and properly scaled the FC22 graph on top of the FC20.

 

Some of you guys are too much. I don't see the big thing with having to keep the displacement at 2.0L, this isn't a rally class car. LOL. I didn't see comments such as this car has lost its soul when the early Miatas went from 1.6L to 1.8L. There is just no replacement for displacement sometimes and the 2.2L obviously makes more power, so why does the peak power need to be 500rpm higher. Big deal, I personally thank Honda (with my '04 purchase) for boosting the displacement so that if I could to boost I'll be making bigger power now.

The downsides to ordering a '04 may be in finding mods, I have *not* researched this much because I'm happy but since the suspension has been stiffened in the front and soften in the back - basically making the car more neutral, the pre '04 springs might not be the best option. Another good thing IMO - It also has a better brake pad compound, smarter interior details (look how many guys have ordered aftermarket leather dash pieces from Rick's signature accessories and now this is standard!) and nicer looks - the new front bumper and 17" wheels made me drool the first time. I could go on.

 

Look at those two beauties! I've had the '01 since March 2001 and bought the '05 in November 2004. I love them both. My husband now drives the '01 and we go on drives together. I must say I miss the 9K rev but the '05 has it's advantages too. I'm glad I don't have to chose one over the other. But for sure, I like the blue better, which is the biggest reason I got another one.

 

Hehe. Currently being an owner of both an '00 and an '04, I thought I'd add my personal observations (not like the mean anything to anybody else.)

Regarding the F22C power controversy... Based on the evidence I have seen personally, or has been gathered by people I know, points to little if any additional power in the new engine. See below for an example of a dyno done this past saturday, comparing an '04 with 1700 miles to a modified '02. This particular '04 did 198 rwhp. On a different day but on the same dyno, my '00 put down just a tad over 200 rwhp. Here is the thread about the day. I was not present, so I have zero knowledge about the state the cars were in - for all I know the '04 could have been overheating, y'know? But that jives perfectly with the infamous North Texas Dyno Day issue from a while back where two '04 cars put down numbers in the 200 to 205 rwhp range.

I have a theory about this. Mostly it's based on the fact that comparing a stock '03 wheel/tire and a stock '04 wheel/tire shows the '04 to be 6.5 lbs heavier. So if on a Dynojet the '04 and '03 cars dyno the same, it would only make sense that the same two cars would show a difference on a Dynapack which operates with the rear wheels removed.

So my conclusion right now is, the F22C engine does make slightly more power than the F20C1, but because of the wheels it ends up putting the same amount of power to the ground. Net result is zero difference.

I have seen one Dynojet dyno (Kit's) that shows 18 rwhp more than '00-'03 cars show, which I cannot account for. Additionally the TOV Dynapack dyno of the '04 has an anomaly that I have issue with - the very large torque spike just before redline. I have never seen that show up on any other dyno, nor have I personally felt it in my car. I think it gives a false impression of the engine's output, since it gives a reading a good bit higher than if the torque curve continued it's normal line. The dyno would still end up higher than a typical F20C1, but it wouldn't show nearly as much increase.

So why do the '04 cars tend to pull on earlier cars in side-by-side acceleration tests? I think it's the gearing.

Second, regarding '00-'03 vs '04-'05. I like the '04 suspension better. It gives the rear more stability, which ultimately leads to faster speeds in and exiting corners. The '04 front tires suck - very little grip, hence the reported understeer. Alignment helps some, but not enough. Running 225/255 Victoracers has eliminated that for me during autocrosses. The '04 clutch delay valve is a horrible idea. I hate it. The 8000 rpm redline is annoying. It's not worth the displacement increase at all. The interaction of the lower redline, VTEC engagement point (still 6000) and lower gearing make for a car that, to me, is simply a hack that doesn't work well with itself. Ideally, Honda should have kept the 2.0 liter 9000rpm engine but done all the other '04 changes (except add some wider front tires.)

 

your talking about your wife's-brother's-grandma's-dog's-uncle, right?

you guys are all beating yourselves over suspension this, redline that....

1. suspension - stop being cheap and buy some shocks and springs if it bothers you that much.
2. redline - who cares? if both cars get from A to B in the same time, it's irrelevant.

what i find amusing is that no one - NO ONE - has mentioned the slower rack. makes me wonder if any of you even have the brainpower to analyze the differences in the 2 cars. it as evident as the nose on your faces, the minute you turn the wheel - you could be going 10mph or 100mph.

that is my biggest pet peave....alas, it can't be swapped out efficiently (read: cheaply).

 

No, it doesn't. It is unfortunate that incorrect posts like yours continue to further this myth for people who don't spend the time to research themselves.

Again, comparing dyno plots on the Internet is pointless. That said, the most accurate means to do so is to have a number of cars from various years dyno'd on the same day. It comes as no surprise that when this has occured, ala the Texas dyno day there was ZERO trend for any year. The range was from 190 all the way to 210hp. You can find indiviual dynos from any year that are going to be higher or lower than those from any other year due to the variances in the dyno type, temperature, barometric pressure etc.

There are a lot of people who seem to have their dicksize wrapped up in which year produces more power. I don't. If there was a trend it would have shown itself under the correct circumstances by now, it has not.

Read the thread before commenting. It has been mentioned more than once.

Nope. Unlike you it appears I actually read this board and retain that knowledge.

Great for you. That's an opinion. The fact that the cars are softer around the edges is a fact. I don't see what is so bad about this. As I have mentioned before, Honda appears to have listened to the American owners gripes and changed the car accordingly. It just sucks for me because I was not one of the guys complaining.

 

yup been mentioned revised for more linear steering feel

'To achieve higher performance, enhancements have been made to the steering system that match the new tire sizes, suspension settings and body rigidity specifications. Also, the rigidity of the steering mount bushings have been increased and the EPS computer has been reprogrammed, resulting in a more linear steering feel. '