No they aren't.

It would also be stupid to assume larger engine size has any additional taxes in most countries. But you did.

Lower redline, softer suspension, heavier wheels. Yeah, sounds like great improvements.

It's a step back for fat lazy American drivers who bitched about the car being too raw. The rest of the world still gets most of the same car we once had, with a more forgiving suspension set up.

Track times are slower, lateral and slalom numbers are down and acceleration is the same. How is this better?

 

All I'm saying is everyone is entitled to an opinion, but calling someone a jackass is getting personal. Sorry I'm not as e-cool as you because I've only been on this board for 65 days I understand though, there are e-thugs on every board

I'm here looking for info and opinions, while I search for a decent '02-'03.

I'm not putting down the 04-05, I just personally prefer the '02-'03

My situation is, I went to buy an '04, and was a little (emphasis on little) disappointed. It just felt like a more powerful Miata (putting on flame suit, hey, it's just my opinion OK). Lets put it this way. I will buy a '02-'03 without driving because the '04 was pretty damn close to what I wanted. As I was driving it I was thinking it needs a stiffer suspension, and the tach is 1K short. That's when I joined started reading this board, and everyone keeps talking about how the older ones are harsher. That would be perfect.

For me: the '04+ is near perfect, the 02-03 are perfect, and the '02-03 with turbo are to die for.

 

1. 90% of the car remained unchanged. We're not talking changing entire layouts either, mostly cosmetics and the displacement

2. Not assuming, knowing. I haven't lived in the US all my life. Most countries have greater taxes for larger size engines. 2.0 is usually the cutoff point for tax increases. Anything larger = more money out of pocket = less sales for honda.

3. more torque (since when is this bad?), stiffer chassis, larger wheels. Let's not forget that the S2000 has progressively been getting softer in the suspension and stiffer in the chassis. It's easy to switch out shocks and struts.

4. How is it a step back? It's not like all of a sudden we have massage seats and trunks space with a back seat. The same guys who complained about the car before are still complaining. Also, fat lazy american drivers still can't fit in the car.

5. This is like saying vanilla tastes better than chocolate. I've seen tons of numbers on both cars and it's never the same result It depends on the driver and setup. Slalom numbers might be down b/c of softer suspension, but again, an easy fix.

 

Zenki means "before" major change "early model"

Kouki means "after" major change "late model"

Pre 04's are zenki (in the USA) cuz of

1. Increase of displacement 2.2L instead of 2.0L

2. Body style change


Most people I talk to don't refer to cars but their chassis code:

IE AP1, KP61,TE27, AE86, AE92, AE101, AE111, FC3S, FD3S, S13, S14, S15.


It's a lot easier to refer to cars w/ their chassis code cuz once you say FD3S you know it's the last gen RX7.

 

My 2 cents: Honda made the car right the first time(except for the terrible clutch). Everything since has not been an improvement. Mostly just tacky, distasteful add-ins, I.E> Chrome accent rings(GAY) and some two-tone ugly ass seats. I personally think that the 04' and 05's front bumper is the ugliest thing I've seen from Honda since the 84 civic wagon. Honda spent millions on development for the initial release, and that was the APEX after that it is all gravy. I am also upset with Honda for selling out and changing the USDM version to 2.2 liters and not calling the car the S 2200 WTF! Buy what you want, thats my opinion. Just don't be upset when my boosted 00' stomps your new 04 and 05.-Peace

 

Its not just in the US that some people prefer 2.2L or 2.3L, etc, a larger engine if you will

ASM AP1 has 2.2L engine tuned by Toda Racing. C-West's AP1 has a 2.2L Honda Twincam AP1 has 2.3L J's Racing (Time Attack Version No.5) has a 2.2L

Then of course there are those that prefer to keep the 2.0L Power House Amuse has a car tuned keeping the 2.0L and so on...J's Racing Advan has a 2.0L, but that's 'cause they can't touch the engine due to the rules, so its an exception...but

My point is!!

All of the ABOVE are JAPANESE PROFESSIONAL TUNERs, who competes with one another. Even amongst these professional TUNERs, who do COMPETE, and on actual TRACKs, have their preferences for a 2.0L or a 2.2/2.3L Which is better? Well, that pretty much depends on what you want to focus on when you're trying to improve the performance of your car, and the driving style of the driver.

Engine size is only one of the factor that comes into play when you're working to tweak the performance of our S2000's.

Everyone's bound to have both pros/cons about their S2000's, whether it be 2.0L or 2.2L
If you have cons, they CAN be fixed, or covered. Engine size change will become a big project whichever way you go. Sizing down or sizing up. I'm not sure how much the 2.0L pre 04 engines are out there, but if you wanna size up, 2.3L from Honda Twinkam is about $5000 for the kit, or $8000 for the complete engine. But as we all know, there are other ways to tune up a car. Change intakes, exhausts. Take some weight off, etc.

But seriously, everyone has all these comments about which is superior/inferior...but how many of you are actually out there on the track racing, and have enough experience, background data to support that one is better than the other? Or are we comparing based on that short 1 block run between signals trying to REV out that Camry next to you? Do you think that an amateur driver driving the 2.0L and the 2.2L on the track will actually make that much of a difference? (And even less so out there on public roads, since we have to abide by this thing called TRAFFIC LAWs)

We bought the S2000 because we fell in love with the car. 2.0L, 2.2L or 2.3L who cares. We like the S2000, and lets just be happy together with that.

PS. It is true that 04-05's are more amateur driver friendly. But just as an example, if you prefer a stiffer suspension? Just change it, get a coil over, change the bushes. Its not that hard. But just as a warning, doubling or tripling the spring rate does put tremendous amount of stress on the chassis. If you plan on keeping the S2000 for a while, and use it mostly for everyday commute or whatever, I'd suggest keeping it to just changing the springs or something. That's what I did. I changed it to RSR's Ti2000. The suspension is slightly stiffer, gaining approx 1.5Kg in the Front, 0.7Kg in the Rear on the rate. Now if I decide to take it out to the tracks, I might change them to a coil-over just during the race. Which might come pretty soon, since my buddy who does race professionally is trying to get me out there...

 

Just as an addional info...

In Japan, car taxes are determined by the engine displacement.

1.5L - 2.0L = 39,500 yen

2.0L - 2.5L = 45,000 yen

 

In 1 post, you say that the arguing is dumb but then you say how the 2004+ is more perfect ... its so funny.

I agree with your post about arguing being dumb. People have spent so much time on this board arguing about the two cars its hilarious. Everyone has their own opinion and it usually reflects which car you own. As long as you're OK with the decision you made then whats the point in arguing? You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the car. If you're not OK with the decision you made, then go out and test drive some cars. I just don't see the point.

And rowb, I think you need to pound your chest a little more ("Just don't be upset when my boosted 00' stomps your new 04 and 05.")... Having a boosted '00 is nice and all, but comparing it with a N/A 04-05 isn't exactly a fair comparison.

 

Ok, let me ask a question here.
If you could go into a Honda dealership today and they were offering you a choice between the two versions of the S2000, a) the original MY2000 with the 2.0 litre engine,or b) the MY 2005 2.2 litre model, which would you buy?

 

You caught me on the first one I guess halfway through I had to so some representing for the 04 crowd. Honestly though, I think they're both great. It would be stupid for anyone to call either car terrible. There are guys on here acting like the other version is complete garbage and might as well be a del sol. Some people get too overstrung on this issue just like the boosted guy. I need to stop reading this thread b/c it borders on the edge of stupidity (and has crossed a few times too). Next thing you know we'll be arguing which one is better because of the carpet texture.