What's the old saying? If someone sets out with the intention to prove product X is better than product Z they will probably succeed in doing just that. That is the problem with most of these arguments.

Something bothers me about benny's post and it's not him, he's been civil and well mannered. However, he does what a lot of people arguing this topic on both sides tend to do. He exaggerates and conceals. Case in point...

"This they accomplished by increasing minutely the interior room"
While I totally agree with him on this (in fact I can't even tell an increase at all to be honest) it's a perceived advantage to the AP2....let's minimize it.

"softening the suspension making it more comfy (and in the process losing much of it's sporting nature)"
Honestly, do you really believe this statement you just posted??? MUCH of it's sporting nature? Hell, I suppose it might as well be an '80 Celebrity Station Wagon now, I read it on the int4rw3b!

"then increasing torque by a whopping 8 lbs"
I'm just going to take a shot in the dark here and guess he means whopping in a sarcastic way. hehe As before, if trying to win an argument you must minimize any perceived advantage. Thus by drawing attention to how small an increase in peak torque was made you hope nobody asks "Yeah, but what about the increases realized under the peak throughout the entire curve?".

Further, there is this gem.
"the NA market is hung up on torque, luxury and room........the same as GM, Ford and Chrysler.......dumb down the S........we liked the minimalistic nature of the car".
First of all there is not one single person on this forum, dare I say in the world, that purchased an S2000 for it's massive stump pulling torque. Nor we're they in some sort of delusional state where they thought they were buying luxury car or some sort roomy SUV. Neither AP1 owners or AP2. I suppose you're right though, it all boils down to us stupid, fat and lazy Americans "destroying" the S2K, with our love for junky and archaic V-8s, pushrods, and leaf spring suspensions. No car using that antiquated technology could hope to compete with the technological tour de force that is shown by virtually all imports. Oh, wait....
Finally, as for the minimalistic nature of the car....I can't think of a single thing that has been "added", not tweaked...added, to the car since it's introduction other than tweeters, and a glass rear window. Maybe you will suprise me, who knows but there is still no dvd navigation, heated seats/mirrors, individually set climate controls for driver/passenger, 500 watt sound system with a "12 sub in the trunk, power seats, etc, etc. The car is still minimalist.

I understand you love the AP1, I do too...I'd have been happy with either one, because they are virtually the same car.

 

I never said anyone purchased it for its stump pulling power. I merely made the point that I purchased the car primarily because of how the engine reminded me of a motorcycles, the stiff suspension and the lack of luxuries. Hell, I even find the plastic rear window endearing.
If the S were first introduced today would I buy one in its current incarnation? Probably... But I don't like it as much. I don't like the chrome on the lights, the gaping hole in the front bumper, the 8,000rpm limit, the softer suspension (yes it is noticeable), or the restyled rear end.
I do like the bigger wheels and tires, the upgrade on the stereo.
But you cannot argue with me that most of the changes were not made for the NA consumer who tends to want more room, more bling, more comfort, easier to handle at limit and more torque. Seriously, why else do you think NA is the only market with the 2.2?
Honda was trying to make the vehicle attractive to those people who found it too high strung and too minimalistic. They dumbed it down to appeal to a wider market. How can you even try to argue with the facts? What other reason do you have for them to make the changes? It is not quicker, doesn't handle better and is less unique than it was. I'm not knocking it I am just complaining that it is not the same car...

 

This I find funny because it would just piss me off.

Much of this is preference, there is no better or worse. I like the metal accents found on the latter models both AP1 and 2. The front end redesign is personally my favorite change between the models, as I mentioned in an above post I always thought the AP1 was smiling at me. Redline doesn't concern me nearly as much as power delivery and usability. That said, if the two cars were identical otherwise and you had an option of the FC20 and FC22, I'll take the 22. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the 9K blast of the FC20, hell that's the coolest thing about the AP1, it's just a "neat" feeling to wind a street car out to 9K. In a perfect world we'd have the FC22 and the 9K redline.....well, in a perfect world it would be a 3.0L V8 turning 12 grand and pushing out 330hp but... I'm kind of split on the softer rear, while I can appreciate a well tuned tooth jarring suspension, stiffer isn't always better. The '84 Corvette was the stiffest, roughest riding son of bitch I've ever been in and it handled well for the time, but current vettes and either S2K would outhandle it, both are softer. I'd imagine outfitted with the same tire model, it's going to depend on the road as to which model would handle better overall between the AP1 and 2. I like the rear end of the AP2 better for the most part but I think from the side the "ridgeless" AP1 rear looks superior. I like the fact the AP2 wheels are bigger, I don't like that they are heavier and while I've grown to like the design I've always preferred simplicity in a wheel, it's hard to beat a 5 star/spoke design, I guess I just don't like "bling bling" enough. Oh, and don't sweat the stereo.....ours still sucks.

Well, partially because of the reasons listed by some above (taxes, etc.) and partially because of the reasons you've listed. Honda listened to what the consumers wanted, that doesn't mean the choice was a poor one. We've both seen overseas consumers on this very board asking why should NA be the only ones to get the bigger motor. It seems to very much be a "grass is greener on the other side" type issue.

Debatable, Debatable, and wrong. With the first two the cars are so close it's probably going to depend on road and conditions as to the outcome. The third is wrong by definition as we both know there are less AP2's with the FC22's in existence.

 

uk and japan has taxes based on taxes so that answers the engine question..
CAR magazine had a roadster shootout with the boxster S being the winner. complaints about the s2k...torque among other things. its a worldwide complaint but too bad for them we get the stronger engine
remember everyone(worldwide) got the AP2 chassis upgrade. reasons include..

'Objectives for enhancing the 2004 S2000 chassis included simultaneously improving both at-the-limit track performance and the street performance during everyday driving conditions. Honda engineers re-visited the performance of the tires and suspension to improve overall handling of the S2000 and enhance "limit controllability." I can attest to the challenge in controlling the S2000 at its limit as the car would quickly snap once its limit was exceeded. Honda has sought to improve the predictability by increasing tire size and body rigidity, minimize rear suspension bump steer qualities, and lower the rear roll center.'

Benefits from Suspension Changes
Improved cornering grip
Body torsional rigidity increased for enhanced vehicle stability
Greater stability over road disturbances
Enhanced stability on wet surfaces
Linear steering feel increased with reprogrammed EPS system
Dynamic braking qualities improved '

 

oh and the gaping hole offers '5% improvement in Cd from new front bumper design'

 

Well, in my opinion, the Japs are the softies b/c they get the navigation. So there. Lets make a case about that, huh? If we had the nav, you guys would be arguing that we had it b/c of our market demand and the car is even worse b/c it might as well be a luxo sedan with the navi.

I don't see this stupid argument ending and I think there is only one way to solve this. The girls that have an AP1 need to mud wrestle the girls that have an AP2. I think this is the only fair and decisive way to find out which one is better once and for all.

 

okay your 04's and 05's are better than my 02 ..... do you feel better now

 

Church Automotive has dyno'ed over 150 S2000's. There is NO other dyno's or company that has done that before.

BC

 

Yes. Hi Travis!!!!

BC

 

i have an 03 my bro has an 04 .....my car is more fun .
imo u cant get that 9k scream from an 8200 rpm motor

and when we race , we do alot ....he hates when he MUST shift , because then all he hears is me goin to 8800 or 9000 rpm .... thats gotto hurt

nothing can take away from that 2.0 it is the motor the car should have IMO