Hello Everyone.

This is a weird subject, but I am doing a little research on tires and crash statistics. I am fighting a court case right now and was wondering if there are people in the know or people that could guide me to information.

I wrecked my S with my first experience with throttle on oversteer, the weird thing is, I was only going 25-30 and gave it 3/4 throttle around a 90 degree very wide turn, and the car suddenly slid on me over a sidewalk into a ranch style fence post. I had only driven the car a dozen times so I have been driving very conservatively to get to know the car. The car was bought from a lexus dealer with dunlop sport 5000 tires on it. They are 205 front 225 rear. The car has been extremely twitchy and have had many experiences with lift off oversteer (chickening out), even my wife has been dealing with this and it has been scaring her. Tread is still fine. I took this curve no differently than with my xl7 or accord. That is why it is weird to me. The area in which it happened is real dusty and had ecalyptus trees hanging over the exit of the curve (relevance, those trees are very oily). The mechanic at the honda dealer told us they were the wrong size and we would experience twitchy behavior at lower speeds, but oem size is 205 225 correct? I have read here many times that the tires need to be 245 rear to have the same contact patch as the oem. Now the mechanic won't say they were wrong, eventhough he said they were.

My lawyer is asking me to find proof about these two items. I have already done research from reviews about the tendency to oversteer.

so 1) is there any definitive proof that the aftermarket tire needs to be bigger than the OEM tires? Are there any tire people here that can attest to that or guide me in my research?

2) does anyone know where I can find statistics for S2000 crashes to see what the rate of oversteer crashes are? The mechanic did say, talk to body shops that have handled S2000 crashed and most of them would be from cornering oversterr.

I am fighting a dui case, and the crash makes it look worse. I was only .06, not slurring, stumbling or impairment. They said I had to be going fast, but I wasn't, The passenger said I wasn't. I never reached the speed limit of 45. This accident would have happened anyway because this was my first time with throttle on oversteer and it scared the crap out of me, and because all my reflexes and cognitive test showed I wasn't impaired. They also thought I was racing (which I do not do) because four good samaritan pulled up in a wrx to help move the car away from the fence just before the cops had arrived. My family was within 5 feet of my field tests, and they didn't notice any evidence of impairment. Hell I had just crashed my car, my adrenaline was pumping and I was nervous and scared one because this is my first accident in 10 years, and two it was my wifes car and three I had just had a few beers within and hour and a half while bbq. I knew they were going to get me for having beer on my breath. I blew 4 times, all well under the legal limit, and I know my limit. Wife always drives me when I am unable and I can and do consciously make those decisions. My reflexes were quick and precise. Our lawyer friends (who's brother was killed by a drunk driver) think something is weird about all of this. I am sorry for the long post but I am embarrassed and have been charged with something I despise, labeled a drunk driver.

If anyone can help guide me or give me concrete information on tires and reasearch, I would be very appreciative. I have almost lost the car a couple of times, again not driving fast. These tires seem very slick, and My wife and I have been talking about taking a driving class and getting the OEM s02 tires. Guess we should have done that sooner...and I should have never gotten in that car that night......

Anyway sorry for the long sob story, just want everone to know where I am coming from and what I am trying to accomplish is that the two aren't always mutually exclusive, especially since I know I wasn't impaired, my wife who is always watching me knew I wasn't impaired.

 

Those are not the correct tire width. That is they are not as wide as the OEM S02's.


Even though the S02's are listed as 205, 225 F and R respectively -- the rears are as wide as a 245. I know it sounds crazy but do some research in the Tire Rack forum on this site.

 

You crashed your car because you drove beyond your limits (whether or not you were drunk). You can't blame it on the tires.

 

So you are saying that taking the corner at normal speeds, normal in all other cars is driving beyond my limit. I was driving very conservatively. I don't think I understand I was driving beyond my limit. I have been very careful not to touch the cars performance capabilities in corners. 25 mph around a corner seems hardly beyond my limit. Just trying to understand. So my wife drives beyond her limit too? Taking corners slower than our prelude? Just trying to understand.

 

what is the limit in CA? you said you blew .06 (which you say is under the limit). They really don't have any good argument for a DWI.

I also have 225R/205F, except they are Bridgestone 930's (a cruddy touring tire that came with the car). they are a little twitcy, but having the car spin out at 25mph is weird to me. I've had it do a 20 degree pivot at about 40, but not what you're describing.

 

I (and many many others) drive on 225's all winter and have never come close to spinning out.

 

Lack of experience is probably the prime contributor to this accident. People routinely complain about the 'twitchiness' and 'snap oversteer' of these cars. I have yet to experience it in ANY of the S2k's I've driven, except for one that still had S-02's on the front and some generic no-name 225 tires on the back... That car was a bit hairy to drive on the track.

 

(assuming you're turning in 2nd gear) Dropping the throttle (to 3/4 full) mid 90 degree turn would likely spin the car regardless of what ever tires you had on, or what ever speed you were going.

Honestly, sounds like you were feeling a little spirited and came hard on the gas too early through the turn.

Good luck with a case for the tires but I could recreate the same result with 265's on the back of my car.

Anyways, I though DUI was .08?

 

The limit here is .08. Which, in our county, the toughest in the state, the two lawyers told me that they bring people in well under .06 because they want to convict people that drink and drive. My situation was no different than having a couple of beers at a restaurant with dinner and driving home. Put that into perspective. People do that all the time.

I took the turn at 25 mph, i pressed the throttle about 3/4, and spun at around 35 mph, just about when I was getting the car straight. I never got to the speed limit, and wasn't intending to surpass it either I was just accelerating out of the corner. I was in second gear. It was just unexpected. Like it was real slippery for some reason, it just broke loose.

 

A 20 degree pivot can easily become a spin if the driver reacts improperly. Did you hit the brakes when the car began to feel loose?