^^Thanks

 

While this story is rather old, it can demonstrate the need to match the tires to the suspension. I purchased a new Toyota Tercel for my wife in 1981, and after a month breaking it in I took it on a spirited drive in the mountains. I was a pretty good hotshoe in autocross back then and knew how to drive, but after that trip I was terrified! The car was VERY squirrely in the turns, the back end was virtually out of control on the first sweeper I took at over the speed limit - this a front wheel driver car. The first thing I did was to replace the tires with better quality ones of the same size, and this made all the difference! The original tires were in perfect condition of course, but something about their construction was incompatible with the car's suspension. I could not believe the difference, but it was real. Simply changing the type and brand of tire turned the car from a dangerous one to a pretty good handling one. It didn't match my prepped X-1/9 at the time of course, but it was at least fun and safe. Just a thought...

 

cousinSven,

Why don't you put some chalk on the tires and roll over a piece of cardboard or do something similar. Measure how wide the chalk is on the cardboard. It will probably be less than 8 inches. I believe the S02's are 8.7". You can do the same for your front tires and you will probably find that yours are wider than the front S02's. You will have to look up the SO2 front and rear widths to get the correct numbers. All in all, your fronts are probably a bit too wide and the rears a bit too narrow (compared to stock from the factory), making your "hitting the throttle in the turn" more treacherous.

In addition, look at your rear tire and compare what you see to an SO2. The rear SO2 has very small voids (more rubber touching the pavement), much smaller than an SO2 front tire.

Maybe you could make a case using your own measurements and postings on the forum as to what is needed.

And so as not to rub it in, I won't say one word about anything else.

Good luck.

 

All this talk of 'snap' oversteer had me terrified to drive my S2000 spiritedly around corners. I was also concerned about not having the right sized tires because I had S-03s 205F 225R. I went to the track for the first time with this car, and even with narower than stock s-02 rears, the car was absolutely phenomenal!! A couple of instances of on throttle oversteer which was easy to catch, and one instance of high speed wrong-time-to-brake oversteer in a faster turn, but it also was easy to bring back into control.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you need to take a class to learn to drive the car. The street really isn't a good place to experiement. I too used to drive a Prelude, and I'm not sure if you noticed or not, the S2000 is quite a bit different! Needs to be treated with respect, like a loaded gun.

A few days after I got my S, I was at a left turn light that had just tured yellow. It was raining out so I decided to wait for the green. The guy behind me was shaking his head because I didn't go for it. It was a longer intersection, and he obviously had no idea what would happen in the wet, 3/4s of the way around the corner when vtec hit, but I did! So I waited.
I did have the benefit of having had crashed a '93TT RX-7 about 6 years ago. Best terrible learning experience I ever had!!
--Jonathan

 

cousinSven, you might not want to hear this but my advice is to hire the best damn attorney you can find, one who specializes in DUI cases. Continue to gather info, but get a lawyer. Worst case he can probably get them to drop down to a lesser charge (speeding) without a trial. If it needs to go to trial, use a lawyer, have a jury, the whole works.

Defend yourself vigorously but don't sue anybody for your driving error.

That's my personal opinion.

Hey guys, lighten up. I don't think he's trying to pass off responsibility for his mistake. He's been wrongly charged with a BS crime (DUI) and is simply trying to defend himself.

The causes of the spin sound to me like:

1) Driver inexperience (out of balance on a corner)
2) Wrong size/traction tires on the car, leading to additional instability and unpredictability.

There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that alcohol has anything to do with his spin but the police are claiming that it does. That is BS and because of the stigma/penalties of DUI, cousinSven is trying to avoid wrongful conviction. He is looking for information that would help to mitigate the circumstances.

He passed all of his field sobriety checks and was under the legal limit for BAC.

I think all of us know that if you don't know what you are doing, it is easy to spin an S2000. There were two spins on our PARADE lap a couple of years ago at Laguna Seca for goodness sakes! Reading the forums over the past few years I have read of MANY spins, but I have not read of a single S2000 spin caused by alcohol. Mostly it's lifting in a corner, accelerating too hard out of a corner, cold tires, bald tires, bald tires in the rain, and even the wrong size cold bald tires in the rain.

Alcohol in the blood? I dunno, it doesn't seem to come up too often. Most people who spin are not drunk, according to the info we have.

We also know that the OEM S2000 tires are not like any replacement tires of the same size. OEM tires are stickier and the rear tires have a wider contact patch than any replacement tire of the same "size". The OEM tires are SO special that they are designed for a single car, the Honda S2000.

Yes, absolutely, replacement tires decrease the cornering stability of the S2000! Absolutely, without a doubt, having Dunlop Sport 5000 (205 front, 225 rear) would make the car less stable than the OEM tires! Being an inexperienced driver of the S2000 and rear-wheel drive cars in general would make the possibility of a spin MUCH higher.

Dropping the Politically Correct BS for a minute, it is NOT against the law to drink and drive. In CA it is against the law to A) have your driving be negatively influenced by any substance (EtOH, pot, caffeine) or B) to be over 0.08% blood alcohol content. (There are a few people I know who would benefit from a beer before they get in the car, but that is another story).

Every single mailing we get from the DMV has a brochure/chart showing the number of drinks people can have over time according to their body weight WITHOUT being over the legal limit. That in itself shows that it is not illegal to have alcohol in your blood while you're driving.

 

Sorry, I see that you do have a lawyer. Good job and good luck.

 

Has anyone mentioned the possibility of spring spacers? Judging by the crappy choice of tires by the previous owner, I doubt he/she drove hard enough to tell if the spring spacers were still in.

 

LATEOTT thank you. that is all I am trying to do (at my lawyers request), defend this charge that I don't believe is waranted and if convicted will be on my record for 7 years I believe.

We are looking for proof, eventhough this was drivers mistake, that the tires could play a role in lack of grip (meaning crash and alcohol weren't related). Eventhough it was drivers error. Also to find out s2000 crash statistics. I am not trying to blame anyone, but i do blame myself. I know I was not impaired that night, hell I wrote a 4 page account of exactly what happened. My wife and dad witnessed the entire process and said I was right on. If I was impaired surely things in my account would be missing. Also, there are no lesser charges in ventura county, only guilty, dismissed or trial.

My lawyer asked me to get crash statistics on s2000, and eventhough many S2000s have spun, doesn't mean they were involved in any accident. so I am searching for vehicle model make crash stats. and to see if the conditions at that corner, with the tires could have contributed to driver error and not the alcohol. I wasn't feeling the beer I had that night. This is why I am trying to protect myself - what is that saying guilty until proven innocent?

That is how it felt for us. I was very respectful to the officer, and I thought I was going to be cited for the accident and set free. They didn't even do that. so who knows....something doesnt' feel right and I am doing what I can to whipe this clean.

 

I think you are going to have a hard time finding the data you want - you will need a forensic expert to testify, or someone sympathetic to your cause who can be certified as an expert witness by the court (judge and prosecutor).

Also, keep in mind that whether it is a judge and or a jury, they are likely not going to be able to see the fine points of your case, and will instead focus on the impairment/judgement issue. Most people are not analytic, let alone scientific, and your defense might do more harm than good. I would focus on whether your attorney can demonstrate your judgement and behaviors were not unreasonable, and you were not impaired. This is not the OJ trial, and you are not Barry Schenk (spelling?). Plus, an LA jury could not figure out that, tainted or not, OJ's blood was 1 in a billion, and that left "reasonable doubt" in more than one nerve cell, as "mind" seems gratuitously generous.

I do not understand the defense anyway - you intend to blame the tires? They are your tires, and it is the driver's responsibility to ensure his or her car is fit for use, and then use the car safely. You could have doughnuts on the wheel and because you chose to drive with doughnuts, you are a goner.

 

It sounds like the defense is that he obeyed the drinking/driving laws, and that you don't have to be drunk to spin an S2000.

If you read what he wrote, he knows full well that he misdrove the circumstances and the equipment (really, you don't need to tell him that!). He shouldn't have to go to jail for that, or lose his license. He sounds like the kind of guy who will learn from his driving mistake. He just doesn't want to get punished for OBEYING the drinking law, the most serious thing he is charged with.