wow!

sounds nasty and scary. I must say of all of the crash pics i have seen the s2k does appear to maintain the safety cell well thus avoiding injury.

as for the sway bar...who makes/fitts them? where can i get one and how much would it cost?

the tyres??? mine are aweful in this very cold weather - like driving on blocks of ice. i go very slow until very warm.

i'm off out to wash and wax mine now.

laters

 

Hi S2000RJ

Thanks for the info. Will you tell me the story about the tyres - sounds bad?

 

That is what I thought, it seemed to be similar symptoms, but Honda UK do not recognize it as a problem with the A/C. Actually, it turned out that the fuse had blown in the relay which controls the system, so it wasn't cutting in.

 

[QUOTE]
Hi S2000RJ

 

Paul,
Your experience matches mine of a year ago perfectly except I managed to avoid an accident. So that was snap oversteer...Now I know I just thought that I was turning the wheel too sharply to avoid the old fool in-front. I had my foot to the floor in 2nd and made a sharp manouvre across a very damp surface (On ramp). I swung 45 degrees one way...dragged it back again...then went the other way...and managed to get it back again. I avoided the brakes (I was too busy reacting).

I got the shock of my week, and the old codger in-front must have had a heart attack as he saw this see-sawing sportscar bearing down directly on him.

So that was snap oversteer...It taught me a lot about respect.

Sam.

 

Sorry, guys, feel like rambling...

A recall is an expensive procedure! If it can be avoided, be certain, it will. (Just see what mess FireBridgeStone got themselves into trying to avoid a large scale recall!).

The gearbox, as delivered during initial production runs (til end of 2000?), has 2 problems:

1) Synchro operation that results in loud grinds.
2) Underspec'd oil pump that results in lubrication failure after extended runs at high speed in turn resulting in seized 1st, 2nd and reverse gears.

The issue is that problem 1 surfaces mainly in warm/hot weather, and problem 2 after extended high speed runs.

None of these conditions are pervasive in the UK.

What would you do if you were Honda UK? Go thru an expensive procedure for conditions that are not likely to be encountered by most? Or take cases as they come?

Draw your own conclusions.



UK Paul,

Would you say that in another car your accident would not have happened?

This may have been the case, but let's consider:

The acceleration capabilities of the S2000 are vastly superior to many cars. This matters because accelerating transfers weight from front to back. And the more you accelerate, the more weight you transfer.

In your own words you were accelerating hard in 2nd. When you came off the throttle all that transfered weight (and some, as you were then decelerating) shifted back to the front wheels lightening up the rear.

This (bad) situation is compounded by the fact that while weight is transferred mass keeps its place (when it doesn't, you have other, more pressing issues ) To achieve the (static) 50/50 weight distribution a lot of mass is kept at the back: driver and passenger, fuel tank, spare, differential, etc, etc.

This is a two edged sword (what isn't?). It gives you a very balanced car when all is well, but you get yourself an interesting pendulum if your rear tyres break traction (as they can do when they lighten up). Not as bad as an old time 911, but much worse than a heavy nosed front wheel drive car.

So, I guess my point is: in another, lower powered, FWD car, the situation you faced would have been less dramatic and easier to control. However, it's not the fact that your were driving at 60MPH that caused the problem but that you were accelerating hard at 60MPH! In fact, I doubt many cars will let you snap on and off course without loosing composure as easily and safely as the S2000, assuming it's not provoked.

There is another characteristic of the S2000 that makes this car easier to spin than some when unbalanced. The S2000 is basically a mid engine mount car, and most of the mass is concentrated in an imaginary rectangle drawn by the four wheels. This is one of the reasons why turn-in in this car is so immediate.

But then again, this is a two edged sword: Ever been to a ballet? Noticed how dancers spin quicker with less effort when their arms are retracted into their body? The same principle apply to cars.

Morale of the story, cars of this design must be respected, they are rewarding but punishing, if their drivers keep off guard (or face the unexpected like you did!).

 

Couple of points:

The circular cover for the towbar is placed at exactly the correct height as most cars bumpers' widest points. Therefore when parking, if you nudge someone, or if someone nudges you, it invariably falls out if touched. I've had to put my one back in place a few times. You can normally hear it snap out if you are the 'nudger'. In London bumper to bumper parking is commonplace.

Secondly, although I sympathise with S2000 owners who lose control of their cars and crash, I have to make the point that your driving should befit the car, your ability and the road condition. The S2000 is a rear wheel drive sportscar, and therefore oversteer comes with the territory. I'm still surprised when S2000 owners are amazed that their cars start going sideways whilst they speed around in the rain. Better tyres will not fix the problem, better driving will. Safer driving is probably a better term. I don't find the car too unpredictable in the wet because I know what to expect. If I accelerate hard in the wet for example, I'll expect wheelspin, oversteer, loss of traction etc. Please adjust your driving for the conditions. Owning a S2000 does not make driving on the roads like driving in Gran Turismo.
UK Paul - please do not think I'm aiming this reply at you, your crash sounds like it was caused by another drivers mistake. It happens. My point is aimed squarely at all S2000 owners who think that you just push the start button and they become Schumacher automatically.
My advice for knowing how to drive a RWD car - learn to ride a motorbike - the rules are very similar.

 

Hi BabyNSX

I agree with everything you say about driving responsibly. I also agree wiyh what you say about oversteer going with RWD sportscars but I do believe that sometimes a little too much of this is designed in. When the mags were testing the S2000 it was clear that cars for different regions were set up in a different way. They said that the only cars that were crashed during this testing were those set up to UK spec!

 

I agree with Asif about the RWD / Motorbike thing. I ride/Drive both and am a complete wuss when driving either in anything other than bone dry conditions.

Whilst i appreciate that i am limiting my fun quotient i will also hopefully limit my trouser stains :-)

As for the lifting off and transferring the weight to the front...I had a near miss in a peugeot 306 diesel a few years ago. A diesel engine is much heavier and the only way i did not crash into cars or the fence (that was the veiw in front of my windscreen for the 6-90 degree swings before eventually stopping. I did not touch the breaks once, merely lifted off, swerved and then spent 15 seconds playing gran tourisimo correcting corrections over and over again. I dont reckon i am a great driver but was lucky that i did dip the clutch allowing the wheels to freely move thus aiding light steering.

My thoughts are this...If the weight of the car transfers to the front and upsets the rear making it much lighter, would this be remedied by having much stiffer suspension?

 

I used to have an Integra-R. I quite often had the back end of the car wiggle on me (oh er) under braking when turning in. On a track it meant it went round corners quickly, on a road it was a little scary. I do feel, however, that cross country I'd make far quicker progress in the Integra than the S2K as it was more involving and more forgiving (but don't forget your ear plugs on long journeys).

The S2K has very rapid acceleration (I think it's much quicker than the wife's Impreza Turbo) but you need to remember that on a damp road under power any large application of power will cause the diff to tighten and the backend to oversteer. My guess is that if the diff were a little more relaxed then there wouldn't be as much worry about oversteer. But boy, if you get it right the S2K can really catapult out of corners. I let a mate (who regularly competes in sprints/hill climbs) take me out in the S2K the other weekend. I've never driven the S2K that fast nor felt as safe in it. Truely a humbling experience.

What were the problems with the SO2 PP's? I was thinking of having these fitted as I've found them to give much better wet weather handling on my other cars.

Cheers,
Andy