[QUOTE=CKit,May 22 2007, 07:20 PM] Absolutely.

Your S2k is a stripped race car, right?

Gee, you think our perspectives are slightly different?

Better stir crazy with an outlet than cynical and jaded... IMHO.

 

Let me see.

Roll doesn't cause weight to transfer to the outside wheels. Rather, it hurts handling by slowing chassis response to steering, braking and accelerating-all critical inputs for controlling the car. By utilizing stiffening components Ie X brace, rear tie bar, Strut bar etc you make the cars suspension take the brunt of the force as it were. This is an important step in "settling the car down" ie Reducing body roll, increasing the handling.

This of course is my opinion.

 

and its insanely incorrect. good luck w/ that.

 

Ahhh...krazik has spoken. He ain't very cmooth but he is correct. The torsional rigidity of the s2k is enough to keep body flex from affecting handling...so conversely added bracing isn't going to improve handling. Body roll is controlled by the suspension...spring rates, anti-roll bar rates, and to a small extent shock performance.

Many cars will exhibit deflection of the shock seats on bumps and, to a lesser extent, in high g cornering. Depending on the type of suspension, its geometry, and the severity of the forces involved there could be an effect on handling. Frankly I never felt the big difference in handling in ANY car with a strut brace that others report. I always have considered their value in making the car feel more solid over bumps. And the bling factor can't be ignored on the street, of course.

 

Geez I guess my opinion is completely wrong. Someday I hope to be as smart as everyone else

 

What Tof said. I agree that chaos theory shows us that when a butterfly flaps it's wings in South Florida it eventually has an effect on the weather in New York, but I don't believe that controlling the butterfly population would be a very effective way of controling the weather. That's all I was trying to get at.

How much to you think the body roll would be reduced if the S2000 chassis had no flex at all, from any source?

You can lift the S2000 by one corner until two wheels are off the ground and there is still not enough flex in the weakest area (the cockpit) to prevent the doors from opening and closing properly.

FWIW, in 1990 the press raved about the stiffness of the then new Miata chassis, and their claims lead me to expect too much. One drive in the car and it was obvious that the thing wasn't as stiff as a closed car, and in fact, wasn't even close. I may be a dumba$$, but I do know chassis flex when it is present, and the S2000 has VERY LITTLE. How much of that "very little" do you think something like a "strut brace" eleminates?

Are any of the track guys running a full cage? I'd like to know how much of a (noticable) difference in chassis stiffness that makes. If that makes a small difference then we sould be able to extrapolate to figure out what lesser mods do.

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S2KinVA, I know how you feel, but I gave up on ever being as smart as everyone else a long time ago. My experience is that no matter how much I know or think I know, there are always those who will know more. I don't *think* anyone is trying to belittle anyone else's opinion, but can only really speak for myself. As far as I'm concerned, opinions just get in the way when we're looking for the facts. Certainly they need to be stated and considered, but I prefer to find out whether or not the facts support the opinions, and that's what I'm trying to do here. I don't even know who or what got you upset, but if it was me, I'm sorry. That was not my intent.

 

Although with a full 3pc sub-frame, the car does flex less when jacked up by a single point. Prior to that point, I'd have to have two jacks on one side... but now I can put two jackstands (on the same height setting) front and back using just one jack. Before, the jackstands would be off by a click or so....

Whether or not that makes a lick of difference, who knows. When getting under the car, I could see how a subframe might reinforce the chassis... there are points that are singly bolted and could flex.

My hardtop creaks less now. FWIW.

 

Had nothing to do with you but thanks for the sorry . My opinions are based on my experience. Sure people can disagree, but there ware ways to do it. Some folks know how to "debate" and some dont. As I get older, I find that I have less patience for those who dont. This is why I dont frequent the "s2000 talk" section.

 

Roll cages, those that are mounted into the frame/sub frame DO change the stiffness of the overall car.

 

I've owned both the Cusco and the Whiteline/Muz brace. I can honestly say I didn't feel a damned difference with either of them...I did notice the missing money from my bank account though...