00BLACKS2K

It is a volume problem with the squirter, not a pressure problem. These are the banjo bolts that fasten the squirter to the oil galley and the holes let the oil flow into the squirter body and through the nozzle. These bolts are not a pressure regulating device. HTH

Gernby

Then why is it that the #4 cylinder is always the one that fails? It seems like it would be comparable to putting too many sprinklers on one water hose. If you don't have enough pressure, the sprinklers at the end won't put out as much water as the sprinklers cosest to the water source. These 4-hole bolts just seem like they have doubled the number of sprinklers, which would reduce the pressure even more.

RT

Has there even been a "#4 cylinder" type failure on any of the other cylinders?

00BLACKS2K

Volume, gernby, not pressure. It's a volume problem at the nozzle. Honda must have determined that the banjo bolts did not flow enough volume with 2 holes. For example, if I have a garden hose with all the volume in the world at say, 1 psi, then all sprinklers will put out the same volume and pressure (1 psi). If the garden hose lacks a source that can provide all the volume the sprinklers can handle, even at the low 1 psi, then one or more end sprinklers will starve.

No one KNOWS why #4 is failing more, but it's probably due to it running hotter because of the coolant flow path (direction) through the engine.

BTW, these nozzles squirt to the underside of the piston for cooling the piston crown, not (primarily) for lubrication. Remember that oil cools the engine as well as protecting it.

Ronald

New update:

Siepel a member of this board imported an American S2000 to the Netherlands and contacted Honda Netherlands. Quite interesting the difference in service quality between USA and the Netherlands!

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I managed to talk to the Customer Service Representative from Honda Netherlands regarding my 'problem' and he had some interesting information:

Apparently, the Oil Bolts recall is only in Europe, because of higher driving speeds and engine load conditions(!!!)

Hmmmm....

In any event, although I have the US spec vehicle, and of course really have no warranty to speak of anymore, Honda Netherlands has authorized to have the bolts and plugs recalls carried out on my car, and they will figure the costs out with the Honda HQ themselves. I even got to pick my own service dealer!
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You can read the whole original thread at:

European service bulletin thread

txst

Thanks for keeping us informed, Ronald.

I really hope that Honda USA (AHM) comes through for us. If this service is being performed to eliminate the #4 cylinder issue, I would hate to think that those of us who track our cars and "drive them like the Europeans" will have problems due to inadaquate oiling. If not, some of us may need a source for these bolts so that we may do the install ourselves.

davepk

I am inclined to do this ASAP on my own. Does anyone have any idea of how difficult it would be to modify an existing/new set of banjo bolts? Would that be an unwise thing to do? I imagine that we'll need to know the size of the 4 holes in the new bolts in order to do it correctly.

cdelena

Same story we got about the transmission.. in Europe the tranny oil pumps were upgraded but not here in the States. I think it has more to do with the regional Honda company than the 'driving conditions'.. AHM finds it is cheaper to fix the failures than prevent them.

I agree with those noting that the tie to #4 failures and this fix is not easy to understand. Many of us speculated years ago that the #4 failure might be caused by insufficient oil flow to the sprayer under the #4 piston thinking it is farthest from the pump and first starved. But perhaps the flow is marginal for all cylinders and that cylinder simply runs hottest.

I would like to go back and take a look at the ambient temperatures of the areas with #4 failures (I know that AHM can analyze the data this way) to see if it could be cold start related. Many of these failures happened very early and before the engines were run hard. But I guess if it was just a cold start problem they could have specified a lower viscosity oil fix.

Lets keep questioning AHM on this one.. it may be more important as warranties run out.

bguernsey

Am I the only one that thinks it is outragious for them to make recalls in other countries and release fixes that they do not do in the US? If you have a flaw in a product and fix it in one country, why aren't the people in other countries who paid for the same product entitled to the same repair?

I guess its nothing a letter writing campaign to congress can't fix in 10 years with a new import tax on manufacturers who favor foreign markets with product services that significantly extend the life of their products.

My next car won't be a Honda, thats for sure- unless perhaps I move to Europe. That Nissan 350Z and the Mazda RX-8 are looking better every day...

-B

phaco

Does the H22 have the same oil squirters? Has anyone with the H series motor had similar problems? My understanding is that the F20 and H series motors are very similar.