Update to the update on the European Service "recall" (Oil Bolts)
09-10-2002, 09:44 AM
#21
Originally posted by txst
Then why do you suppose Honda has not required the recall in the US?
Then why do you suppose Honda has not required the recall in the US?
09-10-2002, 11:29 AM
#22
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by txst
[B]Everyone can do what they want.
I have also taken my car to road courses many times, as have a lot of us here.
[B]Everyone can do what they want.
I have also taken my car to road courses many times, as have a lot of us here.
09-10-2002, 11:59 AM
#23
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This is an update to the bolts ordered. I hope all those that doubted the bolt update will see what honda has done to the infamous Banjo Oil jet bolts and rethink about this whole mess. The old part # (which included the original bolts) is no longer present. A new part # is available and has replaced the old part #. The new part # is the new bolt that is being updated in the european cars...containing 4 holes. The old part # has been removed from the S2000 parts listing. So...take this information with a grain of salt. The new part # is:
15290-PCX-000
I have these 4 bolts, and my dealer has no problem ordering more for customers. However, they will only take pick-up orders.
List price on the bolts is about $15 each. We need 4.
15290-PCX-000
I have these 4 bolts, and my dealer has no problem ordering more for customers. However, they will only take pick-up orders.
List price on the bolts is about $15 each. We need 4.
09-10-2002, 12:52 PM
#24
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Originally posted by vapors2k
You're right on the first part, we can do whatever, but you are wrong in saying that just because there hasn't been a failure, there's no use to upgrading the bolts. I want to prevent whatever wear/damage I can, and by having the chance to swap out the bolts will reassure me that I have done the most I can do. I'm not advocating people to go out to buy the mugen, spoon, or J's oil pan, but there's a purpose for those pans, it's for preventative measures of oil starvation around high G-turns. There is one particular track out here that has a few of those turns, where a friend of mine did lose a motor due to oil starvation. There are plenty of other aftermarket parts that are there for preventative measures against engine damage/failure. One cannot say that since there hasn't been any damages yet, there's no use to preventing such an occurrance. There is an upcoming 2 hour enduro race that I may or may not participate in, and I know whatever I do will not be enough to prevent wear/damage, but I will try to do whatever I can.
You're right on the first part, we can do whatever, but you are wrong in saying that just because there hasn't been a failure, there's no use to upgrading the bolts. I want to prevent whatever wear/damage I can, and by having the chance to swap out the bolts will reassure me that I have done the most I can do. I'm not advocating people to go out to buy the mugen, spoon, or J's oil pan, but there's a purpose for those pans, it's for preventative measures of oil starvation around high G-turns. There is one particular track out here that has a few of those turns, where a friend of mine did lose a motor due to oil starvation. There are plenty of other aftermarket parts that are there for preventative measures against engine damage/failure. One cannot say that since there hasn't been any damages yet, there's no use to preventing such an occurrance. There is an upcoming 2 hour enduro race that I may or may not participate in, and I know whatever I do will not be enough to prevent wear/damage, but I will try to do whatever I can.
People have raced their S2000's in SCCA for a couple of seasons now, and I haven't heard of anyone having an issue with the oil bolts.
I may very well be doing some damage to my engine that I don't know about, but then again, maybe I'm not. I certainly don't have any evidence of it. As a matter of fact, there have been a lot of people who have driven their cars extremely hard, even with superchargers, turbos, NOS, etc - well beyond what the engine was designed for - and they haven't had any problems either. Again, with all of this paranoia I have yet to see any evidence that ANY domestic engine has had a failure or abnormal wear due to the original bolts. Yet, on the other hand, we have now seen one engine that failed running with the updated bolts. Maybe there was damage before the bolts were changed, maybe not - there is NO EVIDENCE either way.
Then again, maybe AHM will issue a recall for us soon - who knows. I am not going to get all worked up over it. But, if you are one of those who are concerned (for whatever reason), it sounds like the upgraded bolts will be available here in the US, so you can change them if you want.
09-10-2002, 02:17 PM
#25
[QUOTE]Originally posted by txst
[B]How can I be wrong in saying that because there has not been a failure or any evidence that the original bolts have caused any damage in the US that I'm not convinced that I need them?
[B]How can I be wrong in saying that because there has not been a failure or any evidence that the original bolts have caused any damage in the US that I'm not convinced that I need them?
09-10-2002, 02:33 PM
#26
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I'm of the opinion that Honda just makes new bolts and issues recalls in Europe for the fun of it and not because the new bolts improve oil distribution by any means or extends the longevity of your engine. Honda often does this- just makes new parts that replace old ones and then does a recall overseas that is. This doesn't mean that there was any problem...just that someone is bored in the engineering department or is testing the recall system...it doesn't mean your car, the exact car being imported from Japan, needs the new bolts. This could be some sick joke on Europeans and it actually makes their cars wear out faster!
If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida I'm sure you'd like to hear about...
-B
If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida I'm sure you'd like to hear about...
-B
09-10-2002, 03:03 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by bguernsey
[B]I'm of the opinion that Honda just makes new bolts and issues recalls in Europe for the fun of it and not because the new bolts improve oil distribution by any means or extends the longevity of your engine.
[B]I'm of the opinion that Honda just makes new bolts and issues recalls in Europe for the fun of it and not because the new bolts improve oil distribution by any means or extends the longevity of your engine.
09-10-2002, 04:10 PM
#28
vapors2k, thanks for new part number. For what its worth here's my summary on what we now know:
In mid-June 2002 a recall was initiated in the Netherlands for loose spark plugs and engine cooling / lubrication. In turn, the plug recall TSB was initiated in the US on July 10 with a recall initiated in mid-August; however, to date there
In mid-June 2002 a recall was initiated in the Netherlands for loose spark plugs and engine cooling / lubrication. In turn, the plug recall TSB was initiated in the US on July 10 with a recall initiated in mid-August; however, to date there
09-10-2002, 04:57 PM
#29
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"Drivers in Europe do use their cars differently than in the US."
I guess the spy who follows me around 24 hours a day told them how I drive? They found out somehow!
Since there was no elaboration on that by Woodwork, we have to think how we aren't driving our cars to know how people in Europe are driving. I've driven my car at 100mph for extended periods of time, I've driven my car at 15mph for extended periods of time, though I typically drive at 70-75MPH. I've taken long trips (1000 miles+) and I take very short trips as well (to the video store for example). And many of us have driven at speeds in excess of 130MPH at the track for extended periods of time. I've driven through hilly country and mountains, I've driven on flat roads that stretch for as far as the eye can see. I've driven on roads that curve extensively. I've driven in AutoX events, I've tried to drive on snow, and I've driven at high speeds in rain and slow speeds in rain.
I've got it!!! They must be using their cars to tow trailers in Europe. Thats about the only thing I haven't done.
I'd really like to see the data Honda collected on my, and other US S2000 drivers' driving habits, because you've got to assume they collected data, other than that from the dealers who refuse us service?
Sorry- the speculation about differences in driving in Europe and the U.S. is bogus. There is no data. It would be ignorant to say everyone in Europe takes their car on the Autobaun, almost as ignorant as to say everyone in the US drives their car on gridlocked freeways. What there is, is a difference in how the service centers report problems and how the customers are treated by customer service. We don't drive our cars any different than Europeans, we are simply treated differently.
-B
I guess the spy who follows me around 24 hours a day told them how I drive? They found out somehow!
Since there was no elaboration on that by Woodwork, we have to think how we aren't driving our cars to know how people in Europe are driving. I've driven my car at 100mph for extended periods of time, I've driven my car at 15mph for extended periods of time, though I typically drive at 70-75MPH. I've taken long trips (1000 miles+) and I take very short trips as well (to the video store for example). And many of us have driven at speeds in excess of 130MPH at the track for extended periods of time. I've driven through hilly country and mountains, I've driven on flat roads that stretch for as far as the eye can see. I've driven on roads that curve extensively. I've driven in AutoX events, I've tried to drive on snow, and I've driven at high speeds in rain and slow speeds in rain.
I've got it!!! They must be using their cars to tow trailers in Europe. Thats about the only thing I haven't done.
I'd really like to see the data Honda collected on my, and other US S2000 drivers' driving habits, because you've got to assume they collected data, other than that from the dealers who refuse us service?
Sorry- the speculation about differences in driving in Europe and the U.S. is bogus. There is no data. It would be ignorant to say everyone in Europe takes their car on the Autobaun, almost as ignorant as to say everyone in the US drives their car on gridlocked freeways. What there is, is a difference in how the service centers report problems and how the customers are treated by customer service. We don't drive our cars any different than Europeans, we are simply treated differently.
-B
09-10-2002, 05:27 PM
#30
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by bguernsey
[B]"Drivers in Europe do use their cars differently than in the US."
I guess the spy who follows me around 24 hours a day told them how I drive?
[B]"Drivers in Europe do use their cars differently than in the US."
I guess the spy who follows me around 24 hours a day told them how I drive?