[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ace10
[B]the mazda nx was very unusual.... but it still isn't a 2.0l.

 

people aren't exactly begging for hyundai/kia engines (or nissan or mitsu) in the united states.

 

yeah I know
but I thought we were talking about comparing engines not about avalibity of the engine in states
and not about stripping 250lb off the car.

I'm not saying V6 2.0L is better..I felt slightly more torque but it wasnt much difffneret from F20c.
You might wanna read my original post again

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by purdyS2K
[B]You think some truck weight is more accurate than manufacturer's scale?

 

Mitsubishi FTO = 2 litre V6.
Jaguar X Type = 2 litre V6
Rover 75 = 2 litre V6
Fiat Dino = 2 litre V6
Alfa Romeo Spyder = 2 litre V6

There have been a few

 

A guy that I work with (he owns a Corvette, but likes the S2000 too) says that torque can be thought of as how the engine responds when you punch the gas. If you have a lot of torque, the engine will respond more (sudden momentum change pushes you back in your seat, rpm's increase at a fast rate). If you have little torque, it takes a while to get things going. The engine does the most work at peak HP and therefore accelerates the car the fastest at peak HP, so that's where you want the rpm's to be. He said that more torque will help you get to the peak HP faster. But, according to him, the thing about the S2000 is, other than below about 25mph, you can always select a gear that will put the rpm's at the peak HP. He went on to say that people, when in the wrong gear, often use torque to get the car to its peak HP when they should shift to a lower gear (if they can without overrevving). Americans have historically been able to use torque because we have had engines with lots of displacement. Europeans and Japanese, on the other hand, have smaller engines so they are more likely to use the shifter to get the rpm's where they need to be.

Overall, I think that I have a pretty good understanding of what he was trying to explain. Does this explanation sound right?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sheister
[B]A guy that I work with (he owns a Corvette, but likes the S2000 too) says that torque can be thought of as how the engine responds when you punch the gas.

 

IMHO, the S2000 torque issue is bull. Other than the slightly doggy area in 1st gear up to vtec, the S, if driven as it was designed to be driven, hauls a#@. I agree with Nastinupe1. If you want to move fast, you have to downshift and place the car into its power band. Keep it there and you'll have a big smile on your face while your passenger is cringing against g forces and the sounds of a screaming F20C.

 

He pretty much has it right. But while a simple principle, it is apparently hard to put in words, and just as hard to get someone to read what you intended afterwards! Don't worry about that rpm rate and momentum change stuff (though accel is the rate of change of momentum).

Bottom line: keep the rev's up, stay in lower gears, and you'll make up for the "low" engine torque.

With a lot more math:
You want to get as much force to the wheels as possible since accel=force/mass (minus retarding forces). Force at the wheels is wheel torque/wheel radius. So you want max wheel torque. Wheel torque is crank torque * gear ratio (minus drivetrain losses). So, you want high crank torque and/or high gear ratio. If you have a comparitively low torque engine, you better have a higher gear ratio. But it is only fair to make this comparison at the same road speed, otherwise accel comparisons are meaningless. At the same road speed, a higher gear ratio means your engine is at higher rpm. So, you must be at higher rpm to get the same accel if you have less torque. Sounds complex, until you realize that hp is torque*rpm. And when all is said and done, we just found that accel is determined by the hp you are making (not the peak hp!).

Sorry, you said you didn't want to make this into a another hp v torque, but you then asked basically that. Couldn't resist.

Now, if you are talking about from low or zero speed, you can't go lower than first gear. So, if your first gear isn't numerically that much larger than the high torque / similar power (say) Mustang's to make up for the crank torque deficit, he'll have the jump because he is making more torque at the wheels (he's also making more power).

A last complication: part of that "push in the back" feel isn't just due to acceleration, but to the rate of change of acceleration. This is called "jerk". It isn't due just to torque, but to the rate of change of torque. So things like throttle response come into play. And as another aside, things like how soft the springs and dampers probably change the feel too.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FCGuy
[B]
A last complication: part of that "push in the back" feel isn't just due to acceleration, but to the rate of change of acceleration.