We're talking at the point where you can either hold out 3rd gear just a tad longer, and you'll end up with 3 options:

A) if you've got the extra 1000RPMs, you don't hit the redline before you start braking hard.
B) Or you slam up against the redline, and you ride the redline until you start braking...
C) Or you brake earlier and compromise entrance speed...
D) Or you U/S early and compromise your powerband (least desirable b/c of impending D/S as well as precious time spent on the U/S)

i've run into the top 2 problems a few times at autox in my older Prelude, where in 2nd gear, I have the option of either holding it up agasint redline, or braking earlier then I wanted to b/c I was slamming the limiter already. Both of which would added time onto my raw time. If I had a few extra revs, it wouldn't have been as big of a problem...

 

I think this is all kinda mute. Power/Weight is a much more fun topic.

-Chris

 

Not really. The key is that you need to push the car to it's limits, and the redline does NOT dictact how much power you have. I would rather take a C5Z06 in any race over an S2000. 6500RPM vs. 9000RPM.


Again, it will be hard to find two cars with the exact same gearing. The gearing would probably work out such that the car with the higher RPM would be geared a little bit lower so you would be bouncing off the rev-limiter anyway, just 1,000RPMs more. The closest example is the USDM AP1 vs. USDM AP2 and the general concensus was that the extra RPMs didn't help as much you'd think it would, and was generally negated by the extra torque generated by the F22C.

Sure, who cares about physics right? The laws of physics probably don't apply in canada anyway.

The limiting factor on revving an LS6 motor is valve float. The camshaft spins so fast that the valves get THROWN open and don't close fast enough for the next stroke of the motor. The valve springs on a Z06 are MUCH stronger than the valve springs on a regular C5 (LS1 motor) and the LS6 spins about 1,000RPM more. So in that respect, they do get more HP by spinning the RPMs up. (Among other changes as well.) However, there is no way they could get it to 9,000RPM. The valvetrain could not handle it. Also, the piston speeds would be supersonic which would be, well, BAD. That was why the F22C has a lower redline, it has a longer stroke. The SBC has a much longer stroke than the F22C or the F20C so it cannot spin much past where it's at now.

 

Here are the only situations in which redline matters: (I'm open to others, but the "can stay in a particular gear longer" isn't valid since that's more to do with gearing configuration.)

1) A race series that regulates engine size but allows unlimited redline. F1, for example.
2) Driving enjoyment.
3) Marketing.
4) Design and construction factors like determining the proper gearing for the transmission and final drive, instrument cluster layout, engine mechanics, etc.

 

it's still a decent advantage. peak horsepower means nothing. you dont shift right at peak horsepower, because it would more than likely make you slower. you'd be short shifting.

shift points are determined by torque being made, multiplied by gearing, and factoring in wheel diameter if you really want to get picky. you then cross reference that with the torque you'd be making at the rpms the engine drops to in the next gear, and multiply it by that gearing, and then you figure it out.

on the S2000, shifting at the rev limiter yields the quickest acceleration, therefore, yes, the extra 1000rpm above the peak horsepower and torque is beneficial.

 

sure you do. why is 9000rpm suddenly not an advantage over 8000rpm on the same car? i'm confused by this post.


bottom line is, yes it's important the S2000 has the redline it does. it directly affects its acceleration. gearing and redline determine your shift points. change either your redline or your gearing, and the shift points change. in the case of rpm, because of the fact that the S2000 will make more forward "thrust" at 9000rpm in it's current gear vs say 6500rpm in the next, the redline is an advantage.

so yes, the redline is not just a novelty. if it weren't for the redline advantage the car has, it would not be as fast as it is. i'm still uncertain how someone can argue otherwise.

 

Remember the ZR-1,with DOHC heads by Lotus???

 

take the same scenario, but drop the redline of the S2000 by 1000rpm. now the C5 will beat the S2000 even more than before.

so how is the extra 1000rpm not an advantage vs not having the extra 1000rpm? it is part of the reason the car is as fast as it is, regardless of what it's racing against.

 

My point is, Honda could've devloped a 240hp motor without the need for the extra 1000RPMs.

The F22C

That's why I feel that redline is a bit of a novelty -- of course it's useful for an F20C, it was designed with that in mind -- but the car could've done without it as well...

Unforunatley this topic has too many variables in it to come to an absolute conclusion (gearing, engine size, type of engine, type of car) but I feel that Elistan has a good list...

 

i agree with the OP. if you just put a 6 in place of the 9 on the tech, then whatever. but i'm not expert and i'm still glad it revs so high cuz the sound is irreplaceable. speaking of which, i heard an m5 rev high yesterday. i dont care how fast it is, it sounded like a rattling tin can.