http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...?threadid=35934

 

Hey Triple-H,

Wassup? How goes it my neighbor?

I was going to post that link... but me thinks it's gonna start another pissing contest.. what ya think? I personally seriously think it's a thread in pissin contest between the pure ethusiasts vs. the track junkies...

Hey, so you didn't make it to the autocross last time when Eric Navestad and I met up huh? His Formula Red 2000 S2000 was so sweet! I felt bad riding in it on 3 autox runs because I considered myself extra weight, therefore slowing him down. Hehe. But Eric was nice, he said it really isn't me, his run times does get shorter as the day progresses.

Interesting though, there was a black S2000 with some racing slicks and a 1 pipe aftermarket exhaust. He was the fastest of the day, even beating this super fast Formula 1 looking go kart. His exhaust sounded weird though, it wasn't bassy at all.. it was a sound like the exhaust was sucking AIR in at an extremely high speed. Kinda like...an airplane...

Oh.. opps.. sorry for going offtopic.

Jimmy

 

hey jimmy - happy turkey day

it's 2:45am, i've lost the energy to hit the shift key

gtrpower seems to be our guy, well mannered and extremely knowledgeable, has many insights in how we might set up our cars although you are more autox and i am more high speed track, sounds like an ally for us

last autox was blown off by a beautiful ride on the motorcycle, no regrets

i saw jeff g today, damn i love that yellow, this would be like the 6th S2000 i have seen on the street in more than 1.5 years

pm me when you get a chance, i want to rally the upstate crowd and try and develop a local region

great thread buddy, i'm thinking the poll for the crash result ages is going to be interesting if honesty is employed during the posting process

 

Triple H,

It's 2:50am now. Hehe. I was just watching Best Motoring's S2000 Special that came out in '99 on vcd for the 100th time I think. God... they know how to push the limits of the S2000 I tell ya.

Actually, I'm also a high speed track guy. I did an event out in Texas World Speedway during summer and absolutely loved it. I like track more than autox. Track for learning the limits of the car, and auto cross for learning the limits of the car for street.

Ok.. off topic again.. I'll pm you tomorrow. Happy Turkey day as well.

Jimmy

 

Everyone is talking about bumpsteer, and living in Austin, TX, where the streets would be smoother if they were dirt, I get a bit of this.

But I didn't happen to see anyone mention what to do when you encounter bump steer. My normal reaction when I start feeling bumps it to hold my breath, grip the wheel tight, keep going at the same line, and slowly letting off the gas...

Of course then there was that time I was doing 60 around a corner and hit a dip caused by a sewer inlet thing on the side of the road and had my rear-end get air...but thats another story. No, I didn't manage to pull out of that one.

So if we can't get rid of the bump steer, how do we deal with it?

Blake

 

Triple-H-

I definitely have very little experience in autocross- I've done a total of three autocrosses in my life.

For what it's worth, I'm more of the track junkie kind- I instruct for a local performance school, taken more track schools than I can remember, and I "help" the pit crew for a local Grand Am Cup team. I've taken three very different cars to the tracks- a FWD car (King Motorsports street driven ITR, C&D article March 2000), a RWD car (King Motorsports Project SS2000), and my personal struggle against eternity, an partial AWD car (1992 Skyline GT-R, SCC article Nov 1999). In the US I've tested at GingerMan, Big Willow, Buttonwillow, Laguna Seca, Grattan, Roebling Road, Motorsports Ranch, Blackhawk Farms and others that don't come to mind. For the upcoming year we are interested in campaigning an ITA CRX, in addition to the S2000 and GT-R. To be honest, autocross doesn't hold much appeal to me, although I do like the downtime it provides to observe other drivers at the limits of adhesion. On the other hand, autocross practice days are good for feeling the limits of the car, and I think could be very beneficial. The combination of lots of practice, no pressure, and exploring the car's limits make it very useful.

With the minimal experience I have with these cars, I have an idea what works and doesn't (for me) at both big and little tracks. What Jason Saini likes in a car's handling may or may not be optimal for others, however, I do like the direction he took with my S2000. If you autocross, I think Jason has some good ideas on how to make the car more controllable for those people.

infinitebass-

I tackled your quiry in my last post. As for bumpy roads, you have to come out to Chicago, the center of the USA for truck transportation. You'll have a new appreciation for worn roads...

dlqo4-

For what it's worth, on Kumho V700s I lapped the ITR at 1.36.xx last year before I sold it, and on Michelin MXX3s I lapped the GT-R at 1.31.xx. I haven't seen any street driven cars go under the 1.30.xx mark at that track, but I think it's possible with the GT-R if we made some concessions to reduce weight (3400lbs+!!).

And to everyone-

Happy Thanksgiving! Rubber side down and don't eat too much bird!

 

Thank you Nick and Jason for stepping in and relating the inherent suspension issues that the S2000 has.

In my opinion, the car was designed to a pricepoint, the engine and the transmission took most of this R&D. They got the suspension to the point that 95% of the driver's would feel that they they were driving a very great handling car. The 5% that pushes this car have found otherwise.

I am by no means a suspension guru. But when you push this car, you know that something is not 100% right. You also know that something isn't quite right with a stock suspension when you drive the King project cars with the front bumpsteer corrected and different dampers.

The King cars feel like they are glued to the road vs the stock car. This is especially true over the rough Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan roads.

The stock suspension gets very gittery over unsmooth services. On track days, I find that I will even alter my line to avoid small bumps on the track because they unsettle the car more than I believe that they should. The stock suspension also gets a "waffling" feeling on high-load corners (the Carolsel at Road America). In these instances, in my car at least, you can actually hear the tires loading and unloading in a corner while the steering input remains constant.

I have never spun the car regardless of these issue, however. I believe that this because I recognize the limitations of myself and the car and I drive beneath them.

No car is perfect for all drivers, they can be improved. This is the same as driver skill, which can always be improved.

 

GTR, Meat, Jason,

I agree with your assesment of the suspension and the bump steer issue.

That being said you don't really believe that is the CAUSE of all the accidents on the street do you? That was the original question.

I doubt any of you guys have lost it on the street and spun it into the woods.

As a matter of fact I would venture to say that if the guys who crashed would have had the bump steer kits installed they would have crashed anyway but at a higher speed.

 

Bieg

Anyone that drives their car above their limitations will run into issues (no pun intended).

Finding these limits takes experience and training.

I look forward to the results of the poll on the age of accident victims. I probably know where they will fall.

I can say that I have never had the car "spin for no reason". I have got in the car and said, "it's cold, don't do anything stupid until the tires are warm", " it's wet out, don't do anything stupid" and "Do I really need to do that on the street"

But to your question, Bieg - Bumpsteer doesn't cause accidents - not recognizing your equipment's limitations causes accidents.

I think that Jason and Nick will agree with this.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WestSideBilly
[B]Couple quick points...

Great thread - the most useful/interesting thread I've seen in S2000 talk in several months.

Whoever posted "Honda hasn't made a rear wheel drive car in many many years. Therefore the Honda enthusiasts have gotten used to the behavior of front wheel drive vehicles" is apparently ignoring the Honda NSX, which is an Acura to us yanks... You're right about being used to FWD, there's not too many RWD vehicles out there that don't share many of the same nasty/fun traits as the S2000...