Why are these cars so twitchy?
my AP1 felt that way when I first started driving it, then again I was used to my old S13 with a stiff suspension so I was kinda used to it, but this car has more power then my other car so I had to learn to play with the throttle more
Since so many folks puff up and ask about one's driving qualifications when mentioning this trait I think it is worth mentioning several SCCA National Champions took a spin in my S2000. And I mean that literally, as in spin-outs whose origin was unanimously agreed to be undesirable hard-to-recover oversteer.
My alignment was double-checked and, no, I did not leave the spacers in. Tire pressures made no real difference using the OEM SO2 tires. If you know the sport then you will recognize names like Ken Montonishi, David Palmquist, and Tom Berry (I was club rep for CASOC a few years back). I'm only a mid-pack racer but if you don't think those guys know what "good" and "bad" handling is then you're nuts.
Some of you will go back to suggesting something else was wrong with my AP1 but they found this behavior in others. The most likely truth is you don't drive at the edge as much as you think you do.
My alignment was double-checked and, no, I did not leave the spacers in. Tire pressures made no real difference using the OEM SO2 tires. If you know the sport then you will recognize names like Ken Montonishi, David Palmquist, and Tom Berry (I was club rep for CASOC a few years back). I'm only a mid-pack racer but if you don't think those guys know what "good" and "bad" handling is then you're nuts.
Some of you will go back to suggesting something else was wrong with my AP1 but they found this behavior in others. The most likely truth is you don't drive at the edge as much as you think you do.
just to add:
and don't get lazy during a up-shifting as well.
the rear once stepped out on me a little (road was a bit on the wet side) when I sat on the clutch too long, shifting too much weight to the front...
as fast as the rear steps out, it will step back right back in fast with minimal inputs from the driver. that's more so for the AP1. i think that's one other reasons that make the s2000 so pure (sometimes dangerous for some drivers at the same time)..
and don't get lazy during a up-shifting as well.
the rear once stepped out on me a little (road was a bit on the wet side) when I sat on the clutch too long, shifting too much weight to the front...
as fast as the rear steps out, it will step back right back in fast with minimal inputs from the driver. that's more so for the AP1. i think that's one other reasons that make the s2000 so pure (sometimes dangerous for some drivers at the same time)..
I am experiencing what you are talking about too, but this happened after I replaced the rear tires with 245/45/16 toyo t1rs. I think it might be an alignment issue. Had the tire pressure checked and they were both at 33psi and had the wheels rebalanced.
Before changing the tires, the car cornered better than any car i've owned. e46 m3, g35, 5th gen prelude
Before changing the tires, the car cornered better than any car i've owned. e46 m3, g35, 5th gen prelude
Here's my input, based on my recent track experience in the S2k and tons of track experience in my 240Z:
The S2k (AP1) does not like aggressive steering inputs. In fact you just kinda THINK the car into turning in and you're turned-in. Almost like a servo-steering effect. Kinda neat, but NOT necessarily the hot setup. My street/track Z handled like that (after I got some reasonably decent front camber). I LOVED it, but others noted excessive sideslip angle in extended turns. I ditched the rear bar, and the car felt understeery, required a lot more input at the helm. It *felt* slower, but was immediately 1.5 sec. FASTER at NHIS, and then 2sec faster at Lime Rock! Part of the improvement at NHIS was due to better drive out of turn 3 (2nd gear up hill), but at Lime Rock I was totally shocked at how fast I went, as the car FELT SLOWER.
IMO, the AP1 setup is probably too oversteery for max performance, though it is quite controllable and even enjoyable once you get used to the initial oversteer "lurch". I bet there's more total grip to be had with more lateral weight transfer up front and less at the rear.
The S2k (AP1) does not like aggressive steering inputs. In fact you just kinda THINK the car into turning in and you're turned-in. Almost like a servo-steering effect. Kinda neat, but NOT necessarily the hot setup. My street/track Z handled like that (after I got some reasonably decent front camber). I LOVED it, but others noted excessive sideslip angle in extended turns. I ditched the rear bar, and the car felt understeery, required a lot more input at the helm. It *felt* slower, but was immediately 1.5 sec. FASTER at NHIS, and then 2sec faster at Lime Rock! Part of the improvement at NHIS was due to better drive out of turn 3 (2nd gear up hill), but at Lime Rock I was totally shocked at how fast I went, as the car FELT SLOWER.
IMO, the AP1 setup is probably too oversteery for max performance, though it is quite controllable and even enjoyable once you get used to the initial oversteer "lurch". I bet there's more total grip to be had with more lateral weight transfer up front and less at the rear.
Definately get some OEM tires on there. And as others have recomended, checking the alignment is a great idea too. If that doesn't fix things, then you can start looking at suspension mods that will change the balance toward understeer.
When I bought my S this past summer I had a choice between an 05 and an 06. The 05 had a good price, but I had been reading about snap oversteer on the S2000 for a couple months and really wanted the VSA. Luckilly, it's not been an issue.
When I bought my S this past summer I had a choice between an 05 and an 06. The 05 had a good price, but I had been reading about snap oversteer on the S2000 for a couple months and really wanted the VSA. Luckilly, it's not been an issue.
I am running GP Sports coilover at the softest setting. I am also running some lame ass tires. My rear always want to go wild when my driving is spirited. So mad oversteer on my 2002 AP1.
I think that running not so good tires only worsen the oversteer. Changing to good tires will only delay the oversteer and will make a false impression of "security". I have came to the conclusion that I should do:
- UK spec alignment
- Install my whiteline front sway bar.
Re-test car. If car is more neutral, upgrade tire. Else sell the car?
What do you guys think?
I think that running not so good tires only worsen the oversteer. Changing to good tires will only delay the oversteer and will make a false impression of "security". I have came to the conclusion that I should do:
- UK spec alignment
- Install my whiteline front sway bar.
Re-test car. If car is more neutral, upgrade tire. Else sell the car?
What do you guys think?


