I've started to feel like one of Rick's "grumpy old men" recently because of my responses in threads started by vietboyjl and maxpoweruk_02 and others.

There are some reasons why some people are safer drivers of S2000s than others and it does not have to do with the driver's age per se but it does have to do with the driver's skill and judgment.

The S2000, like any fine tool that harnesses a great deal of potential energy, has potential for good and evil. You can't separate that out. Some of the "evil" can be designed out by safety features, but, you reach a point where the "good" starts to diminish when you reduce the "evil."

For example, if you made the S2000 front wheel drive or AWD, the back would not come loose so easily, but the car would not carve turns so beautifully. If you added traction control, you'd add weight and cost. If you added an S.C.C.A. approved roll cage, you'd add cost, weight and complexity in the soft top.

Somewhere on the planet there is a 16 year old with more skill and judgment than the average 55 year old. Certainly there are 55 year olds on the planet with less skill and judgment that the average 16 year old. However, with age, we tend to acquire:
.....caution based on our own errors,
.....responsibility based on the experience of managing money, other assets, high power tools
.....skill based on years of practice.

Caution does not come automatically with age. You have to have that kind of "bent."

Responsibility varies greatly from individual. My 20 year old son has more responsibility than most of my peers. He is a poet and a writer as well as an outdoors adventurer. He's done things in his life I may never do including living in Germany for a year, studying in Patagonia, Chile for a semester, and rock climbing in places I'll never go. Knock on wood, he's never had a car accident.

Skill doesn't come from 55 years of making the same mistakes. To improve skill you need to focus on learning how to do something better.

All of this is to justify my internal cringe when I read about a youthful, inexperienced young man being given an overpowered, rear wheel drive sports car.

What kind of loving parent throws their child in harm's way?

I mean no disrespect for vietboyjl or for maxpoweruk_02. If I were 17 and had a chance in a million of talking my dad into giving me an S2000, I'd be the most creative talker ever. I fully understand the enthusiasm and dream.

What kind of a loving parent would consider fulfilling that dream?

Who should not have an S2000:
.....someone who can't afford it
.....someone who has to depend on it in bad weather
.....someone who loves speed and lacks skill
.....someone being given one
.....showoffs
.....someone who's torque hungry
specificially
.....someone new to shifting
.....someone new to rear wheel drive
.....someone unwilling to frequently replace fast wearing, sticky, performance tires
.....someone who will spend $10,000 on hp mods, but $0 on improving driving skill

Who should have an S2000
.....someone who loves to carve turns
.....someone who loves to make the most out of limited resources (1997 cc)
.....someone who admires the engineering and the design goals
.....someone who loves driving as much as or more than washing and waxing
.....someone who loves open air roadsters

In the perfect world, that is, in my perfect world, just about everyone would be in the "who should own an S2000" category (but I'd have the only SSM).

 

Well put, kinda goes to what I have said about CRX's. I love the car, especially when I was in High School. However, there was not one kid at my school that had one for more then 12months, because they would always drive past its limits. I can see the same thing in the S, but ten fold. I drove FWD cars for 8 years, the S is my first RWD. I auto-x it the first weekend I had it, and learned more in the 5 runs I did there, then scrambling to get 1200 miles on car before the weekend. IMO any driving junkie should belong to some form of SCCA racing or what not. Was out in the Blizard that NW Ohio got last night, hit some ice (was in my winter car) on the spree way, 45mph sideways and I pulled it strait. Without the auto-x experience under me, and countless hours of racing video games, (plz no flames, I HONESTLY think peeps could learn alot from video simulaters) I would have ended up looking at oncoming traffic. I know the 3 passangers in my appreciated my driving skills, they where all VERY surprised we did not go around I was a 'skilled' driver at age 16, but my judgement just plain sucked. Took me to about 20 to use 'judgement' in my spirited driving.

Quick side note, my dads best friend growing up, had stupid rich parents. He totalled the new Jag 4 times before they just bought him a new one. The things they did where dumber then anything I have seen posted anywhere. Their 2 favorite toys where fast cars and guns, neither of them started showing good 'judgement' untill they where like 27 (that is where I came into the picture )
Steve

 

Nice turn of phrase. I'd like to borrow that one.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Barry WY Silver/Black '01
[B]

All of this is to justify my internal cringe when I read about a youthful, inexperienced young man being given an overpowered, rear wheel drive sports car.

What kind of loving parent throws their child in harm's way?

 

Agreed, for the most part....

I'm still figuring out if I fit in this category ;-)
I don't know that this one holds true under all circumstances, but if it's your money, it definitely has the possibility of making your judgement a little better.
This holds true only if you try to jump straight in. I hadn't driven manual in 8 years and had never driven RWD when I bought my S2K. However, I went easy on both and gently explored the limits (including auto-x) until I now feel pretty comfortable with both.
You just had to remind me...

 

These aren't me
But somehow the first two of these are...oddly enough, I seem to be doing alright despite also being just 22

p.s. if you want a car that no "Daddy" will ever buy for his spoiled 16-year-old, you're gonna have to spend a lot more than the $33k~ that you paid for the S.

Price and the exclusivity you so desperately desire are directly related

 

If the back comes loose so easily, how exaclty do carve turns with a RWD?

 

The rear can come out easily when driven improperly and/or beyond the cars limits because RWD cars are prone to oversteer as opposed to FWD cars which are prone to understeer.

 

You control it

"Easy" doesn't mean out of control. If you are not ready to control it then you shouldn't put yourself in this position in the first place.

 

Several years ago I spend a few hours with a man in his early 60s who had made a $100 million gift to a major university. We were chatting about what he was going to do with his wealth as he aged, and I asked about his children. He replied, "Giving your kids this kind of fortune like giving them cancer."

IMHO,pParents who dote gifts like S2000s on their children are fools.