Wrecked my S2K yesterday
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From: Laurel
A couple of thoughts. First, we don't have anything like the number or width of painted striping that you guys have in the UK. Surprising because of your weather but the zebra stripes were certainly a mitigating factor. They may have more trouble co-existing with the OEMs.
Second, I think it is a mistake to call the tires dangerous. They won't wreck all by themselves. They do, though, have some very unusual design choices that make whatever you've learned on other tires not so useful. They are poor rain tires and especially sensitive to cold. They also have less predictability, progressivity, and feedback in all conditions (which exaggerates the cold and wet problems.) But if you drive like you are on slicks in the cold and wet, you probably won't wreck. Perhaps one could accurately say that their differences from other tires could make for a dangerous expectation. Oh, and if you drive in the snow you will wreck!
The good news is that there are a few other high performance tires that will allow you to enjoy all of the performance and fun that our car offers. Some of us can live on summer tires (even the OEM tires.) Some need all-seasons. Some need winters. So many tires are so good now that there is a great tire for everyone!
Years ago, I too once had a wreck because I decided to wait till next year to put snow tires on that car. I know this is a "kicking yourself" situation. There is, though, a rather complicated set of circumstances here and you probably shouldn't be too hard on yourself.
Glad you're OK. We all benefited from your experience.
Second, I think it is a mistake to call the tires dangerous. They won't wreck all by themselves. They do, though, have some very unusual design choices that make whatever you've learned on other tires not so useful. They are poor rain tires and especially sensitive to cold. They also have less predictability, progressivity, and feedback in all conditions (which exaggerates the cold and wet problems.) But if you drive like you are on slicks in the cold and wet, you probably won't wreck. Perhaps one could accurately say that their differences from other tires could make for a dangerous expectation. Oh, and if you drive in the snow you will wreck!
The good news is that there are a few other high performance tires that will allow you to enjoy all of the performance and fun that our car offers. Some of us can live on summer tires (even the OEM tires.) Some need all-seasons. Some need winters. So many tires are so good now that there is a great tire for everyone!
Years ago, I too once had a wreck because I decided to wait till next year to put snow tires on that car. I know this is a "kicking yourself" situation. There is, though, a rather complicated set of circumstances here and you probably shouldn't be too hard on yourself.
Glad you're OK. We all benefited from your experience.
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From: Desoto
hope I am not writing a redundant reply... I scanned quickly. I think the cause here is not the S02's but the LSD! I have purposely tried to break my Kumhos loose in the rain at speed and twice barely caught the car from spinning. It always occurred when one wheel hit a puddle(hydo_planed) and the other tire had traction. This broke them both loose and caused the car to kick violently out to the side with the traction.
I think the effect of the LSD when one tire looses traction (and I first heard this on the board in another thread) will be to have the tire with traction grab and pitch the car to that side... While I was always cautious with power in a corner ... I have learned to be just as cautious in the wet. I also have worked HARD at learning to recover from the abrupt change in attitude.
The problem with this car is not tires or the LSD... but the drivers ability to manage them. Don't believe me.... find an empty country road in the rain, perferably one with nothing on either side to hit and with a wavy asphalt surface that will collect puddles... then head down the road and accelerate through the gears... hit a puddle and be prepared for what happens next. The 1st time this happened to me was after I had been lulled into a false sense of security with the Kuhmos in the rain... hitting 3rd at about 60 became very exciting when I hit a puddle and the car went from straight to sideways in the blink of an eye! Its not the same as an open diff car/truck that will light up the rear wheel in the rain. An maintain a straight line.
To me one of the good things about this car is that when it hydroplanes... the suspension is so stiff it feels as if you literally drove up on a layer of something...several times this has warned me to slow down in time to avoid a problem. Oh and hydrplaning relates to how much water the tire can move out of its way in time to remain planted on the pavement... not with the car! Needless to say... worn S02's do a very poor job. This is not intended to mean there are not other factors in a spin... as mentioned previously... correct air pressure is required to maintain an equal contact patch, etc...
I think the effect of the LSD when one tire looses traction (and I first heard this on the board in another thread) will be to have the tire with traction grab and pitch the car to that side... While I was always cautious with power in a corner ... I have learned to be just as cautious in the wet. I also have worked HARD at learning to recover from the abrupt change in attitude.
The problem with this car is not tires or the LSD... but the drivers ability to manage them. Don't believe me.... find an empty country road in the rain, perferably one with nothing on either side to hit and with a wavy asphalt surface that will collect puddles... then head down the road and accelerate through the gears... hit a puddle and be prepared for what happens next. The 1st time this happened to me was after I had been lulled into a false sense of security with the Kuhmos in the rain... hitting 3rd at about 60 became very exciting when I hit a puddle and the car went from straight to sideways in the blink of an eye! Its not the same as an open diff car/truck that will light up the rear wheel in the rain. An maintain a straight line.
To me one of the good things about this car is that when it hydroplanes... the suspension is so stiff it feels as if you literally drove up on a layer of something...several times this has warned me to slow down in time to avoid a problem. Oh and hydrplaning relates to how much water the tire can move out of its way in time to remain planted on the pavement... not with the car! Needless to say... worn S02's do a very poor job. This is not intended to mean there are not other factors in a spin... as mentioned previously... correct air pressure is required to maintain an equal contact patch, etc...
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From: Laurel
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Red_s2k
[B]hope I am not writing a redundant reply... I scanned quickly. I think the cause here is not the S02's but the LSD! I have purposely tried to break my Kumhos loose in the rain at speed and twice barely caught the car from spinning. It always occurred when one wheel hit a puddle(hydo_planed) and the other tire had traction. This broke them both loose and caused the car to kick violently out to the side with the traction.
[B]hope I am not writing a redundant reply... I scanned quickly. I think the cause here is not the S02's but the LSD! I have purposely tried to break my Kumhos loose in the rain at speed and twice barely caught the car from spinning. It always occurred when one wheel hit a puddle(hydo_planed) and the other tire had traction. This broke them both loose and caused the car to kick violently out to the side with the traction.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: WA
Originally posted by jschmidt
jWhenever this idea came up I'd pretty much dismissed it since it didn't make sense given the idea of limited-slip (to maintain traction.) When you described it though, it dawned on me that a combination of limited-slip and our somewhat radical (don't anyone get their shorts in a twist) alignment could possibly have the effect you describe. Interesting...
jWhenever this idea came up I'd pretty much dismissed it since it didn't make sense given the idea of limited-slip (to maintain traction.) When you described it though, it dawned on me that a combination of limited-slip and our somewhat radical (don't anyone get their shorts in a twist) alignment could possibly have the effect you describe. Interesting...
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From: Austin
As a fellow accident victim on a slick road, I totally agree with cdelana regarding the combo of LSD and slippery conditions. In mine, I was in a curve going about 30-35 mph in 4th gear. I think the inside tire lost traction, which caused the LSD to transfer power to the outside wheel resulting in all hell, not to mention the rear end breaking loose. And yes, it's always the drivers fault, or inability to deal with the loss of traction. But to all you naysayers, understand that there is a point of no return where it just can't be saved, and with a short wheelbase and a 50/50 weight distribution, it occurs very quickly in the S2000. Be careful!
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From: Davie, FL
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Red_s2k
[B]I think the effect of the LSD when one tire looses traction (and I first heard this on the board in another thread) will be to have the tire with traction grab and pitch the car to that side... While I was always cautious with power in a corner ... I have learned to be just as cautious in the wet.
[B]I think the effect of the LSD when one tire looses traction (and I first heard this on the board in another thread) will be to have the tire with traction grab and pitch the car to that side... While I was always cautious with power in a corner ... I have learned to be just as cautious in the wet.
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From: Sheridan
I wonder if an LSD was a poor choice for the S2000. As I understand it, the purpose of an LSD is to let you get out of snow and mud trouble. If one wheel spins, power is transferred to the other.
The tow point is the best way to get out of being stuck in snow and mud. A NON-limited slip differential would improve control of a rapidly moving S2000 that hits a spot of bad traction.
Am I missing something? What do the experts think?
Barry
The tow point is the best way to get out of being stuck in snow and mud. A NON-limited slip differential would improve control of a rapidly moving S2000 that hits a spot of bad traction.
Am I missing something? What do the experts think?
Barry