BMW's problem is obvious and simple. They try to target a wide market with their roadsters and although they manage to sell, they fail to make pure sport cars.

What were all these middle-aged ladies with hair dyed blonde and fresh lipstick looking for in the BMW dealership? They were there with their husbands looking at the Z4.

BMW had made already two failures:

Z3: Sold millions. Nice retro looking car. CRAP drive. Not a true sports car. A hairdresser's posing tool.

Z8: Stunning looks. However, they didn't know what they were trying to make. A sports car or a cruiser. Result: fast car, but not a true sports car. Again! AGAIN for god shake!!!

And now the Z4. What is that? Is that a true sports car? Come on guys! Answer to me! IS THAT A TRUE SPORTS CAR? If you think it is, because it has torque and horsepower, then you don't know what you are talking about.

Honda S2000! Lotus Elise! These are true sports cars. Made by single-minded people for true enthusiasts! Forget performance. We are talking about feel. We are talking about what makes your heart racing.

I have an S2000 and my heart is racing when I see one on the road same as it did 4 years ago, when I started dreaming about buying the car.

All these people who had a look at the Z4 at the dealership today had positive thoughts about it. But nobody's heart was racing. Because that was not a true sports car. And the result?

Some of them were puzzled about whether they should get the Z4 or a Z3 which was right next to it. TRUE SPORTS CAR ENTHUSIASTS? No.

Some others went outside and stood in front of my S2000, staring and scratching their heads. Stayed there for about 20 minutes (I mean it 20 minutes) and then they left. TRUE SPORTS CAR ENTHUSIASTS? Maybe.

Honda didn't care whether the lady who just had her hair done would have difficulty to get in and out of the car. BMW does.
Lotus didn't care if you could drive their car wearing high heels. BMW does.

Have you seen Z4's pedals design? Well go and have a look and then compare them with the S2000. If you still think that the Z4 is a true sports car...

That is BMW's problem. They are not single-minded enough to make a true sports car.

 

While I am an S2000 owner and am totally satisfied with it, I just got my latest Autoweek and they reviewed the Z4. It is very impressive. All I've read here is about the torque advantage of the Z4 over the S2000 and no one has mentioned the braking power of the Z4. It out brakes the Boxster S and the S2000 and that is part of road course racing as well as HP and torque. The Z4 out performed the Boxster S and the S2000 in their slalom test.
As far as going to a BMW dealer and staring at the care in hopes that it would grow on you, I think you might need more time for that. I hated the Z4 when I first saw pictures of it. Now I like it a lot more. However, I love my S and will never switch.

 

Actually it can. Just depends on how the course is laid out.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DarioManfretti
[B]While I am an S2000 owner and am totally satisfied with it, I just got my latest Autoweek and they reviewed the Z4. It is very impressive. All I've read here is about the torque advantage of the Z4 over the S2000 and no one has mentioned the braking power of the Z4. It out brakes the Boxster S and the S2000 and that is part of road course racing as well as HP and torque. The Z4 out performed the Boxster S and the S2000 in their slalom test.

 

Numbers on paper do not always equal results in real life my friend.

 

there is NOTHING in the world that bugs me more than people with the top up on a nice day. It's like a sin. Only the rain makes me put my top up. I see so many people in LA, with cars like the Z4 or the Boxter and they always have top up and it makes me feel they bought the car as a badge of how much money they make or how cool they are. But I think they aren't really enthusiasts. To each his own, but these people really should quit faking it and by a nice sedan.

And I agree on the shifter. I've a bmw with the 5-speed ZF box and throws are like 8 inches long, it's rediculous. After I bought the s2000, I would drive the bmw occasionaly and it felt like driving a truck. Don't get me wrong it's a very fine automobile, but it isn't the extreme sports car the s2000 is. My (limited) experience with the Z4 feels the same.

 

I think I have it now.

The Z4 has:

More power.
Better brakes.
More efficient shifter.

But when everything is glued together, the Honda is faster.

I guess the S2000 advocates subscribe to the old theory that we lose money on every sale but make it up in volume.

 

please get these "facts" straight....

Less power: 225 hp vs. 240 hp

I have no idea where a longer throw of the shifter equates to "more efficient"

"The Honda S2000 and Nissan 350Z also bettered the Z4." (time to speed tests)

"The Z4 edged out the Boxster S, S2000 and 350Z with a 46.4-mph slalom, but fell behind the 0.90 g posted by the Boxster S and S2000 on the skidpad."

in the Autoweek test, it did in fact beat the s2000 buy almost 20 feet. BMW has consistantly had fantastic brakes

this doesn't make one or the other car better. That is a personal decision. Better is very subjective and there is no use arguing about it.


Another autoweek test on the slalom, a bit faster than the test above for the Z4:

"The S2000 outran the Boxster on our skidpad, posting a 0.92 g rating, and made short work of our tight, 490-foot seven-cone slalom, weaving through at 47.1 mph, third-fastest on our all-time list behind only the Boxster (48.4) and Ferrari F355 (47.2), and ahead of the M Coupe at 47 flat. "

 

Talk about ingoring the facts. Palmateer posts laptimes of an M3 vs. S2000 where the S2000 wins. While the M3 isn't a Z4 I suspect it's similar performance wise. Cdelena posts that he went against a Z4 on the track and had the advantage. I wish I could do the same but I've never seen a Z4 at the track. There is much more to a car than simply it's HP and Torque numbers. Weight, gearing, chassis rigidity, weight distribution, and a million other variables define the car. All of those variables put together determine how well a car performs. The only way to know how those variables will interact with each other is real world testing. Why do you think auto manufacturers spend millions on wind tunnel testing and real world race track testing before a sports car even hits the streets? If a computer could determine the real world capabilities of a car based upon numbers like HP and Torque they wouldn't need to do that. So here we are, with real world evidence that suggests the the S2000 is at least equal if not better at the track than the Z4, and all you can do is quote magazine numbers. Hmm. I think I hear your mailman coming with the next edition of Road and Track.

 

Do you have any idea how much you will gain if you can outbreak your competitor by 20 feet at every breaking point?

In a typical 75 lap race with around a dozen breaking points per lap, throw in a few more for pit stops, and you have about 1,000 breaking points in a race.

Multiply this by 20 feet each time and you have 20,000 feet or a little under 4 miles.

Like I said, the BMW would lap the S2000.