i try and post my experiences as i go, in attempt to make the lives of others easier.

i wouldnt have said anything about this, but when it happened twice in 1 month. i realized id better say something.
last month, mike's (boyracers2k) car was at my shop, and i was giving it a massage. well, he complained, and had been complaining of loss of power, bad mileage, and several other weird things. i thought nothing of it, and was more concerned with getting the fluids changed. i start the car, and another top tech at our shop (friend of mine) just happened to want to check out the gauges, so as he glanced in, he caught them flickering. and he says,, hey! this car has a bad alternator. and i stop in my tracks,, what! he says lets test it, look at the cluster. sure enough, its flickering bright then dim, which means its recieving AC current. not 100% DC current. in other words, the diodes in the alternator had failed.
so we tested it, sure enough, wasted battery, and bad alternator. WOW! this car is an 03, with all factory parts. and all this at once? no big, its warranty.....
he takes it to the honda which is next door to my shop. i wont name names, thats rude. and they say,,,, welp, theres nothing wrong with this one. im lit at this point, and know the shop foreman. i stop by, and ask him if hes a lunatic. he says, that car is fine, and that flicker is normal!!! WHAT!!! are you baked?
so i have him take it to honda west, where i know most of the folks, and they trust me, and they have a look at it. they use 2 testers, instead of just one, and they concur with me, alt is bad.
they change it, and all is good, but honda wont cover the battery, and so i put a new interstate in mikeys ride next day. his probs are solved, mileage is back, and hes stoked.
OK.... one month later. i tested my battery that same day, and it was about 50 CCA low. but my alt was OK. i thought, need new battery, soon. the water was low, and i knew the alt was carrying that batt. its been 2 weeks. i ordered the battery today. sure enough, at lunch. we are pulling out, and that kid (george) just happens to be with me, and i have shades on, and he doesnt, we pull out in the sun, and he goes HEY!,, your cluster is flickering. hahahaha, you have the same problem mike had. wasted alt. im in shock. my car is 14 months old, 04. and the battery and alternator are toast. so my car is currently at honda west getting some lovins.
the only probable thing i can imagine, is the heat here in vegas. and the fact that we drive our s2ks, every day, and harder than almost anyone else ive met. most others in our area, arent even dailys. and both honda dealers exclaimed that since s2k began, not one failed alternator. weird. but there you have it, 2 in one month. with all stock electrical. so if you do extended top end runs, watch for this symptom. later. dave

 

not sure this exactly qualifies as UTH.....

many people here have driven their S2000's hard a lot in heat (including slows2k i think) and haven't had this problem. is there some specific reason you feel that driving the car hard and in the heat have to do with the alternator failure?

either way, it provides a note of item to check if someone experiences flickering gauges.

 

what do you classify as hard driving.

we do top speed runs in the desert. zero humidity. and ive been in vtec, for 15 minutes plus. right near the limiter.
and we will do multiple roll ons. from 45 through 150, over and over. why because we love it, and have miles of open desert roads. mike and i go at it all the time. its bad ass. this is why we post races so much, when you are out running as hard as we are, you encounter others who want to do the same.
try driving sometime, near 150, for 5 minutes straight. i dare ya. use a timer.
and why you have me in the pan, as to this "qualifying" as UTH. i have no idea. its technical info, that 99% of the readers on here can use. if they have questions about working on their car. i have a 2500 dollar charging system tester, that none of them will ever have. HONDA doesnt even have the one we have. and so i offered help to all on the site. i see you tried to be nice, at the bottom of your post, if you are a smart ass,,, cool. cause i am also. but lets not bicker in here, where the info is. i want the non tech folk, to be able to get info so the worst of the dealers dont screw them over.
k pumpkin. laters daveeeeeeeed. aka: fastest bolt on s2k in the USA.

 

 

[QUOTE=S2oooNvegas,Jul 5 2005, 11:11 PM] what do you classify as hard driving.

we do top speed runs in the desert. zero humidity. and ive been in vtec, for 15 minutes plus. right near the limiter.
and we will do multiple roll ons. from 45 through 150, over and over. why because we love it, and have miles of open desert roads. mike and i go at it all the time. its bad ass. this is why we post races so much, when you are out running as hard as we are, you encounter others who want to do the same.
try driving sometime, near 150,

 

clarification appreciated.

i dont have anymore reasons. other than that mike and i are the only two who drive that hard. and the top end runs is one of the only things i can figure, would put the alt under that much stress. heat, and vibration. honda said what you did, WTF? never seen it. so im going with an educated guess.

later. dave

 

So there actually may be a technical point here.

My initial though was :wtf: there's too many holes in the story here to find a root cause, the story in itself doesn't make sense. In the future it would help to be more clear about the facts involved and try to spend less time with the attitude, people will want to help you more.

Note this is just a theory...feel free to disagree....

Now on to the real problem, and vegas et al, it's actually something you should watch because it may keep happening to you again and again. One important consideration about the diodes involved in Alternators, they are limited to a number of Thermal cycles. i.e. if you heat them up too much(or too often) they could prematurely fail.

One possible reason for excessive heat is the Vegas temps. It's a very hot environment compared to other parts of the country. However, it's not consistently that much hotter(only say 20-30%) to have shortened the lifespan of the component. It should be within the range of design tolerances. Could be a contributing factor but probably not the primary cause of excessive heat.

Second possible reason for excessive heat is how hot you engine runs by being at VTEC continuously. If this were do to extra heat in the engine bay then you would also expect to see oil temps rising. The underhood temperature are probably not rising significantly, or you would see rising coolant temps(and other engine components would be damaged). Again possible contributing factor(i.e. more underhood temp), but not the smoking gun.

Third possible option and the one that I believe is likely to have caused the diode burn out. If I am correct our alternator is not clutched. This means that it will run in continuous operation at all RPMs. Also power output is a function of power input. The more power you are drive into it the more power comes out of it. More power will be generated at higher RPMs. However the system may not be able to absorb all of the power you are generating and some diodes will route that power to ground instead of into the system to protect sensitive electrical components. If you have too much power flowing through the diode for too long of a time, the diode may overheat and fuse creating a short(or it could pop creating an open circuit, but that's rarer). This over power for extended periods of time could easily be caused by running the car at high RPMS for an extended period of time.

This is what I believe may have caused you to lose your Alternator, and if I am correct, keeping your driving habits the same will cause you to lose another alternator. Your only choice may be some type of alternator that is clutched or otherwise more robust to maintain the system.

People who track for extended periods of time also could suffer the same problem because it is an issue with continuous high RPM runs.

Vegas in general please try to tone it down some, if you don't people will just ignore you and if you need help then who's going to respond?

In all honesty you don't need a 2.5K machine to diagnose this. If the diodes have shorted one tell is usually static in the radio. If that fails a simple multimeter can diagnose this nicely. Sometimes simple cheap tools are best.

 

good technical info. crazyphud you learneded me something.

 

Also can someone change the title to Alternator problems: diode burn out? The existing title doesn't say much.

 

agreed on most of what you said.
2 things. i had no *tone* not once. wis has a problem with me, and it has been apparent lately, so i keep a watchful eye. if he tones it down, things will be just fine. im ok over here.
and 2, yes you do need a 2.5 k machine. no static in the radio of either car, NONE. and i was never asking for help, im offering help to others. very few here have the tech experience i have, or the years behind a wrench. this is apparent by the multitude of misinformation here. i try and help when i can, in an honest way.
the cars were taken to both honda dealers, and the first one, i know them personally, dont have one machine, not even their meter, showed any problem. with either car. the machine i have, is VW's prescribed machine, and it is VERY picky. they will not, warranty a battery unless their is multiple prinouts from this machine. they audit, and kick back millions of dollars in claims a year, because of lack of prinout by this static tool. it is wicked. LOL.
as i have said before, i enjoy helping others, alot. i do it almost every weekend,helping folks get their cars diagnosed correctly. ask hac, he works with me, every day, and there are VERY few techs, behind ANY make, that have any proper diagnosing skills. they are parts changers. so if i give you advice, or offer a tidbit, im doing so to help. because im tired of hacks, and crappy installs, and misdagnosis. K. im not here to piss anyone off, never have been. im a very nice guy actually. later dave


oh yeah, i agree with you, im doing an oil cooler next, and then i wanna look into maybe underdriving just my alternator, so you did hit it right on the head. i was thinking all this, but i have no proof. i need to back all this up. gonna take some work, i was gonna try and get honda to sponsor me in the silverstate classic, but i need more research. 90 miles, and id have to pick a class, and update my car to fit it. imagine running 140+ for 90 miles,hope the valve springs would hold up...WWWWWOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!! hehhee. hasta. *the kid*