Antifreeze Coolant
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 594
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From: Pittsburgh
There are differences. From Honda:
Honda has sent the information attached below to its dealers. While you might not expect the source to be exactly unbiased, it does provide technical information and justification for differences in their formula.
Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go
Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.
To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality coolant that has several advantages over the competition.
Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be compatible with Honda/Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant, have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic coolants can cause these problems:
- - Silicates bond to the surface of the water pump seal and act as an abrasive, causing considerable seal erosion and coolant leakage. In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused early leakage. This leakage increased dramatically until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost. In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through the duration of the test.
- - Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating.
- - Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head.
- - Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.
Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term durability of the combination was not tested.
In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:
- - No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.
- - No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.
- - Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.
- - Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).
Honda has sent the information attached below to its dealers. While you might not expect the source to be exactly unbiased, it does provide technical information and justification for differences in their formula.
Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go
Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.
To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality coolant that has several advantages over the competition.
Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be compatible with Honda/Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant, have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic coolants can cause these problems:
- - Silicates bond to the surface of the water pump seal and act as an abrasive, causing considerable seal erosion and coolant leakage. In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused early leakage. This leakage increased dramatically until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost. In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through the duration of the test.
- - Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating.
- - Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head.
- - Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.
Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term durability of the combination was not tested.
In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:
- - No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.
- - No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.
- - Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.
- - Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).
I have read your prior posts and I respect you for that but I will not let pedigree get in the way of facts. Do you have anything more credible?
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,972
Likes: 3,477
From: Foothills East of Sacramento
[QUOTE=shind3;24139951]I have found at least 3 different instances of the text you chose to copy/paste but not embed in a
You made this dinosaur do some more digging. I admit I had relegated my experience with Prestone from the past compositions and had not kept up with coolant formulations recently. Things have indeed changed especially since 2012 as you can see from the article below. I have been using the Prestone type coolant forever in my 94 T-Bird with its iron pushrod V-8, but some of it is pretty old and I might replace the old stock. (Got it on sale)
The quoted article I used seems to be referring to older formulations of coolant with the silica included. Apparently there is not much of that stuff left over (some is in my garage).
There is this article below that discusses the last of the big 3 to move to silicate free coolant in 2012.
Chrysler switches to OAT antifreeze for longer service interval - SAE International
According to what I see now from Prestone is unless you use pre-mixed coolant, the kind of water you use is important. Use distilled (not purified ) water. They mention "Cor-Guard" a package of corrosion inhibitors. I have no idea what that is or how it compares to Honda coolant.
The bottom line for me is Prestone makes coolant for sale in a variety of vehicles, engines, and applications. Honda is pretty specific. I will stick with the Honda. Easy.
The following is from the Prestone Website:
Some European automobile manufacturers request that a phosphate-free antifreeze be used in their vehicles. This issue is related to the extremely high mineral content of the water in Europe. If you were to mix an antifreeze that contained phosphates with the type of water they have in Europe, it may produce deposits that can settle in the cooling system and promote corrosion. However, in North America we do not have this type of water problem. Typical North American coolants have contained phosphates (which is part of the corrosion inhibitor package) for many years. Therefore, the question of phosphates is a non-issue here in North America. Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant is completely safe for use in both foreign and domestic vehicles. For those consumers who would feel more comfortable using a phosphate-free antifreeze, our Prestone® LongLife® Premixed Antifreeze/Coolant and Prestone® Dex-Cool® Premixed LongLife® Antifreeze/ Coolant formula’s are phosphate, silicate, and borate free. These coolants use a special chemistry and technology that extends the life of the corrosion inhibitor package so that it lasts for five years or 240,000 kms (whichever comes first), and is safe for all cars and light trucks (old or new).
Both SCA and Extender are used to supplement engine coolants to provide a fully formulated heavy-duty (HD) coolant. However, SCAs and Extenders are as different as conventional silicated HD coolant is to Extended Life HD coolants. SCA chemistry is typically based on a combination of nitrite and inorganic corrosion inhibitors, while Extenders are typically based on nitrite and organic corrosion inhibitors. The use of SCAs in Extended Life coolants or extenders in silicated formulations will negate the benefits of the additive and could jeopardize the cooling system’s life.
Prestone® Cor-Guard™ Antifreeze/Coolant is an Extended Life coolant that meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the following industry specifications:
without any sign of a cited source with demonstrated lab results. Even the text that points to 'these graphs show' images are nowhere to be found.
I have read your prior posts and I respect you for that but I will not let pedigree get in the way of facts. Do you have anything more credible?
I have read your prior posts and I respect you for that but I will not let pedigree get in the way of facts. Do you have anything more credible?
The quoted article I used seems to be referring to older formulations of coolant with the silica included. Apparently there is not much of that stuff left over (some is in my garage).
There is this article below that discusses the last of the big 3 to move to silicate free coolant in 2012.
Chrysler switches to OAT antifreeze for longer service interval - SAE International
According to what I see now from Prestone is unless you use pre-mixed coolant, the kind of water you use is important. Use distilled (not purified ) water. They mention "Cor-Guard" a package of corrosion inhibitors. I have no idea what that is or how it compares to Honda coolant.
The bottom line for me is Prestone makes coolant for sale in a variety of vehicles, engines, and applications. Honda is pretty specific. I will stick with the Honda. Easy.
The following is from the Prestone Website:
Some European automobile manufacturers request that a phosphate-free antifreeze be used in their vehicles. This issue is related to the extremely high mineral content of the water in Europe. If you were to mix an antifreeze that contained phosphates with the type of water they have in Europe, it may produce deposits that can settle in the cooling system and promote corrosion. However, in North America we do not have this type of water problem. Typical North American coolants have contained phosphates (which is part of the corrosion inhibitor package) for many years. Therefore, the question of phosphates is a non-issue here in North America. Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant is completely safe for use in both foreign and domestic vehicles. For those consumers who would feel more comfortable using a phosphate-free antifreeze, our Prestone® LongLife® Premixed Antifreeze/Coolant and Prestone® Dex-Cool® Premixed LongLife® Antifreeze/ Coolant formula’s are phosphate, silicate, and borate free. These coolants use a special chemistry and technology that extends the life of the corrosion inhibitor package so that it lasts for five years or 240,000 kms (whichever comes first), and is safe for all cars and light trucks (old or new).
Both SCA and Extender are used to supplement engine coolants to provide a fully formulated heavy-duty (HD) coolant. However, SCAs and Extenders are as different as conventional silicated HD coolant is to Extended Life HD coolants. SCA chemistry is typically based on a combination of nitrite and inorganic corrosion inhibitors, while Extenders are typically based on nitrite and organic corrosion inhibitors. The use of SCAs in Extended Life coolants or extenders in silicated formulations will negate the benefits of the additive and could jeopardize the cooling system’s life.
Prestone® Cor-Guard™ Antifreeze/Coolant is an Extended Life coolant that meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the following industry specifications:
- ASTM D3306
- ASTM D4985
- SAE J1034
- BS 6580 (European specification)
- JACA/JSA-JIS K 2234-2006 (Japanese specification)
- Australian AS2108-2004
- Chinese GB 29743-2013
- General Services Administration CID A-A-52624
Last edited by cosmomiller; Jan 23, 2017 at 07:07 AM.
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,396
Likes: 1,798
It's remarkable how good OEM coolant seems to be, these days. I remember changing my BMW 1602 and 2002 coolant every year, just to protect the metals in the engine. And the pathways in the radiator. Wish I had Honda pre-mix in those days.
I think the development of real long-term, compatible coolant came with high performance motorcycles. Those engines seem to have a lot of semi-exotic metals that would react & dissolve, if the wrong coolant was used.
I think the development of real long-term, compatible coolant came with high performance motorcycles. Those engines seem to have a lot of semi-exotic metals that would react & dissolve, if the wrong coolant was used.
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