Hello Everyone

Just purchased a 2001 wiith 49K on the clock. I was originally looking at an AP2 2004 S2K with 72K miles and the delta between the two models ended up only being about 1,500 dollars. I opted to take the lower mileage(& lower cost) even though it wasn't the color i wanted(yellow). I still had notifications set on my phone, when i was looking for an s2k and saw this pop up. This is how i learned about the Valve retainer issue: 2002 Honda S2000 Base eBay (reading the description, new engine, valve retainer issues?!)

I knew there was some slight differences between the F20 & F22, but didn't realize the Valve retainer issue till after purchasing, had i known I would have likely opted for the AP2. With that said, i have purchased this one and am wanting to get a little more info on the issue.

When looking at the valves there some controversy on a couple things that I have read through time and wanted to understand if these have been cleared up(since most of the threads are older) My questions are below.

1.) From what I have read so far, the Valve retainers on the intake are the ONLY ones that are recommended to be replaced. The recommendation I have seen from most is just to upgrade to the AP2( 14765-PRB-A01) and the cotters. There has been some controversy on whether the exhaust side is needed to be done, but recently i have discovered that others have seen issues with the exhaust retainers. The controversy lies around a potential float issue(due to the delta in weight between the AP1 vs. AP2 retainers), the exhaust side will likely slap the piston before damaging the retainer, but i would like to change them while i am in there. has anyone confirmed that it is now okay to swap the exhaust side with AP2 retainers? This looked to have been Honda's direction on the F20 AP2's in europe.
2.) Can I physically see the issue when doing a vvave adjustment, or should i just change them anyways while i am in there? I don't know the history of the vehicle and if anyone before ever hit the money shift. Some say there is no real way of knowing if its cracked, others say that you can begin to see the interior wall of the retainer once it has started to crack and the valve stem has dropped some.

Thanks for helping!

 

1. yes intake side only. i am not an authority, but Billman says its not necessary to do the exhaust side. originally back in the mid 00's people would swap both I and E sides.
2. You may be able to see severely cracked retainers but from my understanding the place the cracks begin is the typically the bottom and you will not be able to see that part. in short, if you are there, replace them all regardless of condition.

 

take photos of the intake side, post them up, and we'll give an assessment. I'm in the same boat and pull the valve cover every year- every time, all looks well. I have not over revved on a down shift and so the stock AP1 retainers remain healthy. I have a set of AP2 intake parts ready to go, but i'll keep them in the packages. No need to change them if I don't need to.

From that ebay ad
"Valve retainer cracking: may crack at high rev. Once completely broken, the retainer will go inside the cylinder and destroy the engine."

This is incorrect- retainers will not go inside the cylinder. that is not possible- as the retainers are on the TOP of the valve stem. What can happen is the retainer will fail and drop the valve into the cylinder- worse case scenario.

Take home message- check your retainers and don't mechanically over rev your AP1 engine.

darcy

 

Hi Darcy,

Thanks for your reply!

Would you be looking at doing your intake side and Exhaust or Intake only?

I agree that the logic behind the ebay post is incorrect.

 

personally, i'll just do the intake side- if the exhaust side needs doing i'm in a world of hurt.
darcy
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There's no controversy here -- just a lot of people who insert opinions in the place of facts, so inevitably the rumor of "AP1s are unreliable and crack valves/retainers" or the "early AP1 oil jets will cause your engine to fail" gets spread all over, despite a consistent lack of evidence.

Facts:

• If you don't overrev/mis-shift, your retainers won't crack with age, or spontaneously.
• Quoting Billman250, "Change intake side only. Using AP2 retainers on the exhaust side will lower the float RPM it takes to bend them. It would defeat the purpose. The idea is to raise the over-rev RPM that can cause hidden damage."
• For AP1s, changing the retainers is 100% optional -- upgrading to AP2 on the intake side will buy you a few hundred RPM in case of a miss-shift/overrev (per above)
• Since you purchased used, I highly recommend that you at a minimum inspect the retainers (and adjust the valves while you're there) in case the previous owner mis-shifted and you have a ticking bomb:
  https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un.../#post11356707

P.S. Off-topic :: And as a new AP1 owner, here's things you should actually worry about after you move on from the retainers:

• Watch your oil level like a hawk and check every fill-up until you understand how much, if any, that you burn -- there's a right way and a wrong way to read our dipsticks (hint: cold engine, level ground, pull stick, wipe stick, insert stick, pull stick, both sides should be even -- go with the lower of the two)
• Spark plugs need to be torqued to 20-24 ft-lb -- the original manuals stated a much lower torque, causing many to back out and destroy engines.
• Quality tires, RWD, weather, wet roads, oversteer. 'Nuff said

 

To do. If ur already in there might as well do both sides bud.

 

I Have a 1999 S2, when I got the car about 5 years ago it had 30k miles, I changed the intake retainers about 40k miles I think. To me this was just an insurance policy, I could not guarantee that in the cars past it had not been over revved, the retainers looked ok but swapped them anyway. Your choice..

 

I have only found 1 broken exhaust retainer. The crack was very small and hard to see. The intake retainers on the same engine were destroyed bad. This is from a high rpm mis shift.

So if your intakes APPEAR ok, your exhausts are guaranteed to be fine.

I am currently at 150k on original AP1 retainers. Proper inspection is key.

 

These are mine at 155k and I have seen worse..... Something told me just do them because I was finding a look of has assed work my the previous owner.