AP1 - Valve Retainer - to do, or not to?
08-17-2017, 05:34 PM
#41
You have to know what you are looking for when you do the inspection. You are not looking for visible cracks because as you point out - they crack on the underside. You are looking for valve stem tops that are sunken down in the retainers lower than normal which is a symptom of cracked retainers. The problem only occurs if the engine is over rev'd. If you don't over rev your engine you will not have a problem with ap1 oem retainers. Sorry if that is annoying to you.
not trying to knock anybody but hell, spend a few bucks and do the job so its right and then you never have to worry again! this is literally the #1 talked about issue/problem we worry about with these engines and its such an easy fix. i didnt see anything wrong, i did check to see if my valves sat lower... i couldnt tell... everything looked great to me... but i did it anyway, and found almost every one cracked! its about peace of mind i guess...
08-17-2017, 05:58 PM
#42
I replaced mine at 157,000 miles, original ap1 retainers not so much as a hairline crack. If it hasn't been overrevd they will not crack. I bought the replacements to do with the seals, I would have just used the ap1 retainers again but I lost one so I just replaced them all. You can easily tell ap2 retainers from ap1, ap2 are thicker. Especially around the retainer area.
08-18-2017, 07:00 AM
#43
yeah, but if you ONLY had one or the other in hand, it would be tough to tell which style it is.... you know? i did learn that there is a HUGE difference between the ap1 and ap2 keeprs though, but you cant see the difference! if your going to change them out, make certain you are collecting your old keepers and putting them in a bag so your not confusing them, the ones that have been in the engine typically are a bit darker from being covered in oil, etc... ap1 keepers go with the ap1 retainers and ap2 keeppers go with ap2 retainers, do not mix them!!! you will see the part numbers you need in the video.
also, if you buy ap2 keepers, SOMETIMES there is a laser etched mark in the top of them, but to my best knowledge most do not have this luxury ....
also, if you buy ap2 keepers, SOMETIMES there is a laser etched mark in the top of them, but to my best knowledge most do not have this luxury ....
08-18-2017, 07:43 AM
#44
yeah, but if you ONLY had one or the other in hand, it would be tough to tell which style it is.... you know? i did learn that there is a HUGE difference between the ap1 and ap2 keeprs though, but you cant see the difference! if your going to change them out, make certain you are collecting your old keepers and putting them in a bag so your not confusing them, the ones that have been in the engine typically are a bit darker from being covered in oil, etc... ap1 keepers go with the ap1 retainers and ap2 keeppers go with ap2 retainers, do not mix them!!! you will see the part numbers you need in the video.
also, if you buy ap2 keepers, SOMETIMES there is a laser etched mark in the top of them, but to my best knowledge most do not have this luxury ....
also, if you buy ap2 keepers, SOMETIMES there is a laser etched mark in the top of them, but to my best knowledge most do not have this luxury ....
08-18-2017, 08:30 AM
#45
I am not a mechanical genius by any stretch and I did this on my AP1 in an afternoon before I sold it. I had a slight split second overrev and wanted to be more safe than sorry. I bought a tool similar to this that made the process fairly quick and painless.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lisle-Tools-36200-Valve-Keeper-Remover-and-Installer/19252978?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1235&ad id=22222222227016751910&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=51770 643551&wl4=pla-83188537991&wl5=1020090&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl1 0=112354589&wl11=online&wl12=19252978&wl13=&veh=se m
My only tips to a novice:
Buy some cheap wood dowels about 18 inches long and drop one in each cylinder so when you rotate the crank you can easily see when each piston has hit its top position. You need to rotate each one to the top as you do those valves so that if you accidentally drop one, it will not fall in all the way.
I could not get enough pressure on the tool to easily pop in the keepers at 5'6" 150 lbs, so my 6'1" 250lb friend came over and he leaned on the tool and pushed in the springs with ease. He popped the old keepers out and the new ones in in about one minute per spring. With the valve cover off and that tool it took us ten minutes to replace all the keepers.
Read all the good write-ups here on the board so you can visualize the whole process before you get started.
Order a couple more keepers that you need, they are small and can be dropped and lost easily in the engine bay, and have a magnetic wand handy in case you drop on in the engine.
The valve cover gaskets are re-used by lots of people without problem but just order a new set when you do the procedure, its just a few more bucks.
The job was actually pretty easy even if you have never messed with the valvetrain stuff before. My retainers showed no bending or cracks at all, but it was nice to know for sure and to do the upgrade for safety margin. It is a $100 job and a couple hours of your time.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lisle-Tools-36200-Valve-Keeper-Remover-and-Installer/19252978?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1235&ad id=22222222227016751910&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=51770 643551&wl4=pla-83188537991&wl5=1020090&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl1 0=112354589&wl11=online&wl12=19252978&wl13=&veh=se m
My only tips to a novice:
Buy some cheap wood dowels about 18 inches long and drop one in each cylinder so when you rotate the crank you can easily see when each piston has hit its top position. You need to rotate each one to the top as you do those valves so that if you accidentally drop one, it will not fall in all the way.
I could not get enough pressure on the tool to easily pop in the keepers at 5'6" 150 lbs, so my 6'1" 250lb friend came over and he leaned on the tool and pushed in the springs with ease. He popped the old keepers out and the new ones in in about one minute per spring. With the valve cover off and that tool it took us ten minutes to replace all the keepers.
Read all the good write-ups here on the board so you can visualize the whole process before you get started.
Order a couple more keepers that you need, they are small and can be dropped and lost easily in the engine bay, and have a magnetic wand handy in case you drop on in the engine.
The valve cover gaskets are re-used by lots of people without problem but just order a new set when you do the procedure, its just a few more bucks.
The job was actually pretty easy even if you have never messed with the valvetrain stuff before. My retainers showed no bending or cracks at all, but it was nice to know for sure and to do the upgrade for safety margin. It is a $100 job and a couple hours of your time.
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SkidPad (08-18-2017)
08-20-2017, 03:49 PM
#46
theres really no way to know, that would be easy. i believe there may be some stupid tiny difference in the retainer that you could only pick out if you had both an ap1 and an ap2 in your hand. i bought the same tool that the speedacademy guys used on their youtube video, i HIGHLY suggest you use that video as a guide.
the parts are cheap, i asked the guy at honda to give me the mechanic price and he kindly did, which helped a lot. i would absolutly be willing to ship this tool out to anyone as long as you send it back when your done, imean it was only 50 bucks but if you wanna save a few bucks...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wHZcE9lJ18 - VIDEO
https://www.amazon.com/Go2buy-Universal-Install-Overhead-Compressor/dp/B01M36DXG1/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1503019825&sr=8-14&keywords=valve+spring+compressor - SPRING COMPRESSOR (EASY)
the parts are cheap, i asked the guy at honda to give me the mechanic price and he kindly did, which helped a lot. i would absolutly be willing to ship this tool out to anyone as long as you send it back when your done, imean it was only 50 bucks but if you wanna save a few bucks...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wHZcE9lJ18 - VIDEO
https://www.amazon.com/Go2buy-Universal-Install-Overhead-Compressor/dp/B01M36DXG1/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1503019825&sr=8-14&keywords=valve+spring+compressor - SPRING COMPRESSOR (EASY)
Last edited by S2K632; 08-20-2017 at 04:41 PM.
08-20-2017, 04:43 PM
#47
Yes, cams gotta come out, maybe the rocker assembly if you want more room but not necessary. Good idea to hold the rockers together with a rubber band so you don't drop any pins. You use a compression tester hose with the Schrader valve removed to put air in the cylinder. Put in ~80 psi with the cylinder at TDC, with the cams out you don't have to worry about opening any valves.
Stick to the Honda stuff if you want it to last.
Stick to the Honda stuff if you want it to last.
08-20-2017, 07:59 PM
#48
Yes, cams gotta come out, maybe the rocker assembly if you want more room but not necessary. Good idea to hold the rockers together with a rubber band so you don't drop any pins. You use a compression tester hose with the Schrader valve removed to put air in the cylinder. Put in ~80 psi with the cylinder at TDC, with the cams out you don't have to worry about opening any valves.
Stick to the Honda stuff if you want it to last.
Stick to the Honda stuff if you want it to last.
08-21-2017, 04:01 AM
#50
5hrs of labor? Maybe, if he's going by book time. The hose itself is around $20, plus $70 for the spring compressor and $140 for all 16 retainers and 32 cotters, or around $240 in parts. If you don't have an air compressor shove some rope down the cylinder, heck just having the piston at TDC is enough to get the job done with the bolt on the side spring compressor. Maybe want to pick up a magnet tool.