apexi vafc is it worth it?
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Ranson, WV
i did not say no gains, i said not much.
car makers play it safe and run rich, with vafc we can lean it out and get a few HP.
what i was trying to stress was that it really works best with mods that alter stock airflow. to get the AFR in line with good power and not dangerous to engin by running too lean or too rich.
maybe i am biased, with SC, i do not consider a couple HP gain as significant, and i doubt if a stock s2k with vafc is gonna get a 10hp gain.
don't want to start this into anything big about what mods do or do not work....
keith
car makers play it safe and run rich, with vafc we can lean it out and get a few HP.
what i was trying to stress was that it really works best with mods that alter stock airflow. to get the AFR in line with good power and not dangerous to engin by running too lean or too rich.
maybe i am biased, with SC, i do not consider a couple HP gain as significant, and i doubt if a stock s2k with vafc is gonna get a 10hp gain.
don't want to start this into anything big about what mods do or do not work....
keith
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,063
Likes: 365
From: Redondo Beach
V-AFC/"piggyback ECUs":
For those of us staying normally aspirated, this is the best bang for buck mod. (If you're going the FI route, it may even be better, since tweaking air/fuel is even more critical.) Gains are typically 5-10 hp peak, and even more off-peak. It's customizable for any assortment of mods on your car, since you dyno-tune it specifically for your vehicle. With the harness, you can also return the car to stock for trips to the dealer.
But there are some "hidden" VAFC costs:
- Dyno tuning $100-200
- Harness (optional) $150
- "Pretty" interior mounting solution (optional) $150
So you can end up spending 700 or 800 bucks on the whole deal if you want to make it as "clean" as possible.
Plug-in ECUs (Spoon, Mugen):
These are more expensive (~$1500) and their gains have not been well documented (i.e. dyno-proven). Some have reported little or no gains on the dyno. They are true plug-and-play (no dyno-tuning), but of course they have fixed, generic maps that are not optimized for any specific vehicle, and are not meant for FI applications. Also, they may disable certain desirable features, such as OBD2 diagnostics.
Programmable ECUs (AEM EMS, Hondata ECU):
Priced about the same as the plug-ins ($~1500), these are the "ultimate" ECU solution, since you can dyno-tune every engine management parameter to your specific vehicle. Of course, this requires far more dyno time (and $$) than the relatively simple VAFC tuning, but the gains are much greater (~20 hp?). Several of us are anxiously awaiting the Hondata programmable ECU, which was developed directly from a Honda development ECU, and will hopefully be a lot more straightforward to tune than the AEM unit.
Cheers,
John
For those of us staying normally aspirated, this is the best bang for buck mod. (If you're going the FI route, it may even be better, since tweaking air/fuel is even more critical.) Gains are typically 5-10 hp peak, and even more off-peak. It's customizable for any assortment of mods on your car, since you dyno-tune it specifically for your vehicle. With the harness, you can also return the car to stock for trips to the dealer.
But there are some "hidden" VAFC costs:
- Dyno tuning $100-200
- Harness (optional) $150
- "Pretty" interior mounting solution (optional) $150
So you can end up spending 700 or 800 bucks on the whole deal if you want to make it as "clean" as possible.
Plug-in ECUs (Spoon, Mugen):
These are more expensive (~$1500) and their gains have not been well documented (i.e. dyno-proven). Some have reported little or no gains on the dyno. They are true plug-and-play (no dyno-tuning), but of course they have fixed, generic maps that are not optimized for any specific vehicle, and are not meant for FI applications. Also, they may disable certain desirable features, such as OBD2 diagnostics.
Programmable ECUs (AEM EMS, Hondata ECU):
Priced about the same as the plug-ins ($~1500), these are the "ultimate" ECU solution, since you can dyno-tune every engine management parameter to your specific vehicle. Of course, this requires far more dyno time (and $$) than the relatively simple VAFC tuning, but the gains are much greater (~20 hp?). Several of us are anxiously awaiting the Hondata programmable ECU, which was developed directly from a Honda development ECU, and will hopefully be a lot more straightforward to tune than the AEM unit.
Cheers,
John
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,739
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From: -
installed my yesterday 7/16/02 installed and tuned it using the library and the field harness.......definetly a difference.....especially from vtec on... makes vtec ultra smooth. Took two hours and looks cool I'll fiddle with it some more than hit the dyno to see what it does. love it! a little confusing but after a while you can proggram the frickin mini thing real quick.
I'll fiddle with it some more than hit the dyno to see what it does. love it! a little confusing but after a while you can proggram the frickin mini thing real quick.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 457
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From: Savannah
Apex has a power FC for JDM S2000's but not ours yet.
As for the comment earlier that the Vafc is too little gain for too much money....
I hope you go out and buy and exhaust or header. Then I'll really laugh when you've spent thousands for less gain than a Vafc!
Then I will really laugh!
Chris
As for the comment earlier that the Vafc is too little gain for too much money....
I hope you go out and buy and exhaust or header. Then I'll really laugh when you've spent thousands for less gain than a Vafc!
Then I will really laugh!
Chris
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: Savannah
www.diabloautosports.com
They run specials on it time to time. Normal price is about 320 though.
Chris
They run specials on it time to time. Normal price is about 320 though.
Chris
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