Best Time to Shift Into Neutral During Decel
Joined: Jun 2009
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Coasting and braking in neutral approaching a stop light is fine. What I normally do. Modern brakes don't need help from rowing the gears. Mostly just easier, but saves a few cycles on the clutch and synchros too. Same with skipping gears on the way up. Merge onto a highway: 1-2-3-6. Or even 1-2-6 on a power merge, since 2nd goes past 60 and 6th will do fine at that speed.
Holding the clutch pedal down uses a little bit of the life of the throwout bearing for each second you do it. Has no effect on the clutch or pressure plate.
I only double clutch on a rolling downshift to first, sometimes, when it's cold, to avoid crunching. That is probably more an old habit from competition than anything else. But double clutch is not going to do any damage either.
Oh and of course I double clutch on an "upshift to first" or "upshift to reverse" after first starting when the weather is cold. Also to avoid crunch. Sometimes just to get it into gear at all.
Holding the clutch pedal down uses a little bit of the life of the throwout bearing for each second you do it. Has no effect on the clutch or pressure plate.
I only double clutch on a rolling downshift to first, sometimes, when it's cold, to avoid crunching. That is probably more an old habit from competition than anything else. But double clutch is not going to do any damage either.
Oh and of course I double clutch on an "upshift to first" or "upshift to reverse" after first starting when the weather is cold. Also to avoid crunch. Sometimes just to get it into gear at all.
skip shifting up through the gears is fine in many cars, but should NEVER be done in an s2000, unless you want to end up lockingg out some gears. Billman can explain why, or you can just search the forum
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: 12m SW of Glen Rose, Tx
If "lockout" was going to happen, I think after 14 years it would have happened already.
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Originally Posted by davidc1' timestamp='1406522615' post='23261881
skip shifting up through the gears is fine in many cars, but should NEVER be done in an s2000, unless you want to end up locking out some gears. Billman can explain why, or you can just search the forum
If "lockout" was going to happen, I think after 14 years it would have happened already.
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Foothills East of Sacramento
I understand the reason for not skip shifting when upshifting but I assumed the same reason applied downshifting. What is different?
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Originally Posted by davidc1' timestamp='1406522615' post='23261881
skip shifting up through the gears is fine in many cars, but should NEVER be done in an s2000, unless you want to end up locking out some gears. Billman can explain why, or you can just search the forum
If "lockout" was going to happen, I think after 14 years it would have happened already.
Care and feeding of 2nd gear synchros - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums
Shifting the S2000 made easy - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums
#12
#7
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: 12m SW of Glen Rose, Tx
Maybe my lack of problems is because I don't always skip to the same gear. On the county roads where I live now, I often skip up to 4 or 5 rather than 6. And the gear I skip from varies too. My favorite skip gear sequence is 6-3-6 used for quickly passing rolling roadblocks on 2 lane highways. 6-3-4-6 if passing several at once.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 986
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From: 12m SW of Glen Rose, Tx
Originally Posted by Gregg Lee' timestamp='1406523471' post='23261888
[quote name='davidc1' timestamp='1406522615' post='23261881']skip shifting up through the gears is fine in many cars, but should NEVER be done in an s2000, unless you want to end up locking out some gears. Billman can explain why, or you can just search the forum
If "lockout" was going to happen, I think after 14 years it would have happened already.
Care and feeding of 2nd gear synchros - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums
Shifting the S2000 made easy - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums
#12
#7
[/quote]Thanks for the links. I read the genesis thread from woodwork and see that I don't do what he recommends against. He says:
"Dragging the mainshaft speed down from 9,000 RPM to 4,000 when going from 3rd to 6th takes time. 6th gear has only a single synchro ring and it doesn't like it. It will grind if you are shifting hard and fast. By shifting hard the synchro ring does not have time to slow down the main-shaft and the sleeve will slip over the synchro and grind the gear. If the sleeve is ground enough in 6th then it will not slide the other way to engage 5th.
So if it is hard to get your car into 5th or 6th it may be because the sleeve is being damaged by skipping gears. Hope this makes sense." (I added the red color)
Yes, this does make sense. But based on his description, the last statement is too broad. Rather than "damaged by skipping gears" it should be "damaged by doing hard and fast shifts when skipping gears up to 6th."
When I skip up I always take my time, pausing briefly in neutral, and engaging 6th gently and carefully (reverse sits right next to it after all.) Actually it seems odd that someone would rush a gear skipping upshift, since the reason for skipping is that you are no longer accelerating. So a fast shift accomplishes nothing.
I might also have added "Hard and fast shifting can damage any gear. But 5th and 6th are especially vulnerable."
That thread is from 2001, so addresses only AP1 MY 2000 or 2001. And I have a MY2000. I will go ahead and look through the other links to see comments on later models.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: 12m SW of Glen Rose, Tx
Nothing new in the other threads. Links #12 and #7 are to the same thread, 12 years after the first two. Discussion way less focused.
And "skipping is lazy?" Pretty far from a mechanical discussion. I think of skipping as less time with one hand off the wheel.
And "skipping is lazy?" Pretty far from a mechanical discussion. I think of skipping as less time with one hand off the wheel.
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From: Long Island, New York
I have plenty of gear sets, and burnt syncros, that are hammered beyond use and they are all due to skip shifting. Every one I have been able to confirm with the customer.
I assure you, skip shifting on the way up is the best way to damage the transmission. I have posted explanations elsewhere.
Skipping on the way down there is much LESS chance of damage, but it can still happen. It all has to do with shift timing, and those who have good timing and understand the transmission will never have a problem.
If you don't know for sure if your shift timing is correct, then I strongly recommend not skipping gears in any direction until you know for sure that IS correct.
I assure you, skip shifting on the way up is the best way to damage the transmission. I have posted explanations elsewhere.
Skipping on the way down there is much LESS chance of damage, but it can still happen. It all has to do with shift timing, and those who have good timing and understand the transmission will never have a problem.
If you don't know for sure if your shift timing is correct, then I strongly recommend not skipping gears in any direction until you know for sure that IS correct.
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Do whatever you want dude. Just take the advice and do whatever you want with it, and leave the rest.