A/C Compressor Mounted Near Header ~ Issues?
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 99
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From: Las Vegas
The harness connector to the ac clutch is often damaged, usually due to someone not disconnecting the connector when unbolting the compressor. It's such a common occurrence that eBay sells a replacement wiring connector to replace the broken one.
Looking at the belt routing, the AC pulley and alternator seem to be taking all the load. The OEM routing distributes tension on both sides of the belt. I'd say you're missing an idler pulley.
Looking at the belt routing, the AC pulley and alternator seem to be taking all the load. The OEM routing distributes tension on both sides of the belt. I'd say you're missing an idler pulley.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 99
Likes: 3
From: Las Vegas
A manual tensioner will never work adequately. Belt length changes with heat. Belt stretches with load. Watch a video of a tensioner, any engine, as engine is merely revved. Its rapidly moving all over the place.
A manual tension will always be either too loose and slip, or too tight and damage bearings. It can and likely is too loose one second, too tight the next.
Belt traction comes from 2 things. Belt surface contact area, and enough tension to keep belt closely mated to pulley.
Wider belts have more surface area. More degrees of belt wrap have more surface contact.
You are running both a narrower belt (5 rib vs stock 6 rib), and less wrap. The routing used has significantly less belt wrap than stock. Between narrower belt and less wrap you've easily got half as much belt to pulley surface contact area as stock. Half as much belt traction.
That would be if you had stock, auto tension, which you don't.
It's simply not possible to have belt not constantly causing you issues with how its been setup. You're probably overtensioning the hell out of it trying to get it to stop slipping. That causes its own set of issues, which long term can be worse than slipping belt.
So far in analysis any slipping is limited to ac compressor. So issues limited to dramatically shorter belt life and ac that doesn't work. But there is also much less belt wrap at crank. So narrower belt with less wrap risks belt slip at crank, which would result in insufficient belt speed at alternator and water pump. Your engine could overheat with the setup being used. Even if it doesn't, belt is going to fail prematurely, which at best will leave you stranded. At worst destroy engine.
It seems whoever designed the belt layout being used does not understand the basics of how ribbed serpentine belts operate.
A manual tension will always be either too loose and slip, or too tight and damage bearings. It can and likely is too loose one second, too tight the next.
Belt traction comes from 2 things. Belt surface contact area, and enough tension to keep belt closely mated to pulley.
Wider belts have more surface area. More degrees of belt wrap have more surface contact.
You are running both a narrower belt (5 rib vs stock 6 rib), and less wrap. The routing used has significantly less belt wrap than stock. Between narrower belt and less wrap you've easily got half as much belt to pulley surface contact area as stock. Half as much belt traction.
That would be if you had stock, auto tension, which you don't.
It's simply not possible to have belt not constantly causing you issues with how its been setup. You're probably overtensioning the hell out of it trying to get it to stop slipping. That causes its own set of issues, which long term can be worse than slipping belt.
So far in analysis any slipping is limited to ac compressor. So issues limited to dramatically shorter belt life and ac that doesn't work. But there is also much less belt wrap at crank. So narrower belt with less wrap risks belt slip at crank, which would result in insufficient belt speed at alternator and water pump. Your engine could overheat with the setup being used. Even if it doesn't, belt is going to fail prematurely, which at best will leave you stranded. At worst destroy engine.
It seems whoever designed the belt layout being used does not understand the basics of how ribbed serpentine belts operate.
Everything that you mentioned is what I have experienced since getting back the car. Alternator went out once, belts jumping teeth as well. Some times the a/c pulley area would squeal sometimes it wont, probably due to extension and retraction of the belt.
I really had high expectations for this shop. Somehow fell to the trap of fancy pictures and marketing of social media.
I will try and have them fix it.
Last edited by oliversok; Jun 10, 2022 at 02:19 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 99
Likes: 3
From: Las Vegas
But I think there is hope. I believe it would be possible to retrofit an auto tensioner from another vehicle, in correct location of after all driven pulleys, and at same time restore much of the lost wrap using a revised belt routing. Fix all the problems.
Basically, you'd replace the idler pulley that currently sits above and between crank and compressor with an auto tensioner.
You'd add another idler pulley higher up. Basically, move the idler tensioner removed for auto tensioner up higher.
Then route belt differently. I'll make a diagram, but basically, belt would now go under crank, then up to tensioner, then down to ac, then up to new higher idler. Then continue as it does now to alternator and the rest.
You'd get drastically higher belt wrap around crank and ac, and tensioner would be in correct location. I think that would fix all yoir belt issues (assuming ac pulley now aligns with the others).
To make this work will involve finding tensioner that will physically fit, and tensions in correct direction. Tensioner pulley isn't too much a concern, as can always remove what it comes with and replace with an idler pulley of needed dimensions.
You'll also need to mock up a simple mounting bracket for tensioner.
...Looking at this further, if you can remove that black idler pulley, the one above and between ac and crank, and get me some good photos of what it mounts to, what is behind it. Anything that could interfere with a bracket that woukd get mounted there. How much space behind pulley, etc.
Also before you remove it, measure how much space between that pulley and crank pulley.
Then I can find tensioner that will work, and give details how to build tensioner mounting bracket.
Where are you located?
Basically, you'd replace the idler pulley that currently sits above and between crank and compressor with an auto tensioner.
You'd add another idler pulley higher up. Basically, move the idler tensioner removed for auto tensioner up higher.
Then route belt differently. I'll make a diagram, but basically, belt would now go under crank, then up to tensioner, then down to ac, then up to new higher idler. Then continue as it does now to alternator and the rest.
You'd get drastically higher belt wrap around crank and ac, and tensioner would be in correct location. I think that would fix all yoir belt issues (assuming ac pulley now aligns with the others).
To make this work will involve finding tensioner that will physically fit, and tensions in correct direction. Tensioner pulley isn't too much a concern, as can always remove what it comes with and replace with an idler pulley of needed dimensions.
You'll also need to mock up a simple mounting bracket for tensioner.
...Looking at this further, if you can remove that black idler pulley, the one above and between ac and crank, and get me some good photos of what it mounts to, what is behind it. Anything that could interfere with a bracket that woukd get mounted there. How much space behind pulley, etc.
Also before you remove it, measure how much space between that pulley and crank pulley.
Then I can find tensioner that will work, and give details how to build tensioner mounting bracket.
Where are you located?
I really appreciate your help. And I will gladly accept it, after I attempt to try and get the shop to fix it for me. I paid for services and expect to get what I paid for.
IMO The ideal setup would be utilizing a K24 USDM waterpump housing, USDM K24 alternator, K20 A/C compressor, and EP3 Idler pulley and tensioner so that the accessories are routed as stock:
If they won't honor the work and I end up having to do the work myself, I will either go the route I mentioned or the method that you have come up with keeping the a/c compressor where it currently is.
I am located in Las Vegas, NV
Thank you,
Chris
Last edited by oliversok; Jun 10, 2022 at 02:43 PM.
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