i meant running on the rich side***

 

Yeah you're pretty far...The dealer should DAM SURE KNOW how to read fuel trim. It's been the cornerstone to fixing driveability issues for many years. Since the OBD1 days. These days the techs can't think out of the box to save their ass. Even a simple scanner that shows baseline datastream will show which way the fuel trim is leaning. It's the first step to narrowing 50% of the possibilites in an instant. The tablet machine issued to the dealers can do 100X more. Pretty sad they don't know how to use it.

I would recommend making a few calls to a few dealers. Get someone on the phone who sounds like they giva a crap, and knows how to use their tablet machine. I'm sure there are good techs out there, but they are hard or near impossible to find.

 

i havent read all the posts, and im just wondering if you have changed the injectors. You shouldve if you havent!!! would have saved you so much money and trouble if it turns out to be the injectors, which is VERY likely. It happened to many people with earlier models, especially 70k miles up.

 

i also dream of a CEL Free s2k. it will never happen. If you have misfire codes that won't go away you might need your head (not yours, the cars ) examined.

 

Since ive been battling with these misfires the CEL would come on and off with driving cycles. Starting just last week it stays on permenantly and comes back on immediatly upon reset. I had the codes pulled and rather than being ..misfire 1 2 3 4...it is now mifire cly. 1 and secondary O2 (the one in the cat). So i replaced it with a universal bosch o2 because the OE was not in stock and was 4times as much. I stripped and soldered the wires ..pretty straight forward ..the blacks, greys, and whites go together. But it did not remedy it..same o2 code is pulled from ecu. Should i try an oe O2..will it make any difference?

 

As Billman said you need to check the fuel trim .

1) If it is running rich it could damage the catalyst and build up carbon on the pistons and make hot spots that will cause a misfire .

A flashing CEL is telling you something major is going on and is also there to tell you to stop driving because you could over heat the Catalyst and damage it .

Now that you have the secondary sensor code I would have your Catalyst check . You could be causing more damage than you think just by reseting it all the time .

2) If it is running lean you can burn a valve or worse .

It might be worth it to try and get it over to Billman . He will at least treat your car as his own and do his best to figure out the situation as the dealers are of no use. Plus the tech at the dealer could give a crap about you car , they are getting paid either way .


Get it over to Bill before you have to pay for something much more devastating .

 

Someone asked me a question about the O2 sensor DTC before, I remember that the Helms says if you throw the O2 DTC you should check the continuity and resistance in the wiring before you replace the sensor itself. I'm not saying that your O2 sensor didn't need replacing, only wondering if since you spliced and soldered the wiring the resistance may be off. I don't remeber the spec, but if the resistance is off the DTC won't go away. Good luck.

 

ok....so the car when to honda a few days ago and i just got it back. I told them to read the fuel trim and check the catalyst. The catalyst checked out good they said ( what is catalyst exactly..just converter?) But they were unable to read the fuel trim with the o2 sensor code throwing everything off. I did have them adjust the valves and they reccommened i put an OE o2 sensor in rather than the universal bosch i had just installed. I installed the OE sensor yesterday and reset the ecu and for the first time in months i had no CEL ...but that only lasted until that evening.

CEL came back on but now it no longer reads the misfire or o2 codes that i have been battling since i bought the car....
the new code is
p0411
secondary air injection system
incorrect flow

any ideas in what to do next?

 

The "catalyst" is your catalytic converter. Probably using a non OE sensor threw the ECU off on that one.

As for the new code, it's to do with the vacuum lines for the 2ndary air injection. They most likely disconnected one of them when they were messing around your engine bay. Follow this to diagnose where the line may be disconnected:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=105368

 

That is complete BS.

No matter what, the trim can be read. They are just another dealer who doesn't have a clue.