Ouch! Was there any indication that the valves had contacted the pistons?

 

possibly.

the face of the valves were warped...but repairable. alaniz, the head shop, relapped the face of the valves and everything was fine.

the valve guides, he replaced all of them (exhaust I believe) since they were warped.

i see no other reason why there would be the above damage unless there was contact with the pistons.

I believe the pistons are fine, never got them professionaly inspected but when i looked at them there was a thick layer of black carbon? buildup...so i just supposed the pistons were fine...

 

[QUOTE=RED MX5,Apr 7 2007, 04:59 AM]Are you stock?

 

Very interesting. I think you are the first person to crack AP1 retainers without an over rev, and the first person to crack AP2 retainers. I don't know whether I should congratulate you or give you my condolences.

As far as the inspection goes, you do not need to see the cracks. Once the retainers are stretched enough to crack, the valve stem and keepers will be visably depressed. This is easily visable from above. Billman has posted numerous pictures if you want to see what it looks like from above. It really is an easy inspection that only takes a few minutes.

 

I'd love to see the pics of the cracked AP2 retainers. Those are all AP1.

 

RED MX5 Posted on Apr 7 2007, 12:04 AM
Well... the retainers are raised in relation the the valve stem.
Raised by the valve spring.

That's also why valve clearance isnt changed with cracked retainers.
Your engine may run like normal.. but may be seconds from disaster.

 

y do u say that these are ap1 retainers. when i ordered them they were the ap2 part number here in australia .

since these were cracked i ordered another set of retainers from honda . they told me they only stocked the ap2 retainers now. on arrival and inspection they look exactly like the ones i have posted above just not cracked !

 

Bill, I'm extremely glad to see that you joined in on this conversation, because, for one thing, I wouldn't know the difference between an AP1 retainer and an AP2 retainer if they both bit me in the butt.

Based on everything I've read and believe I know (much of which I learned from you) the AP1 retainers do not stretch/crack unless they're hammered by an over rev. One instance might be an outlier, or it could just be that the guy over reved the car without realizing it, or I could be totally wrong about over revs being the only issue. The REASON I check my retainers at every oil change (other than it being so simple) is because I'm not absolutely sure that the things won't crack/stretch without having been hammered. Has your theory/understanding of the situation changed in any way? Isn't this a problem that we only see after an over rev? (Not saying that the guy with the cracked retainers is being dishonest, because there are other posibilities.)

 

But the valve stems and keepers are still visably depressed further down into the retianer (relative to the retainer) when the retainer is stretched/cracked, and that's what you look for. Yea, it's really the retainers being higher but you can't see the difference in retainer height so you look for the depressed valve stem and keepers (to be depressed further down into the hole in the center of the keeper).

LOL, Bill needs to post his pictures again.

As I understand it the current theory goes something like this ...

1) This is not a problem with AP2 keepers. The pistons will hit the valves before the AP2 keepers stretch/crack.

2) This is not something that just happens due to wear and tear, it is the result of valve float and the resulting hammering the valve train takes during a mechanincal over rev.

3) It's easy to check for stretched/cracked keepers and only takes a few minutes, and since number 2 above is not a hard fact, checking them occasionally is cheap insurance. The retainers on an AP1 need to be inspected after any suspected over rev, but this is not necessary with the AP2.

If any of that is not correct, you or Bill (or both of you) need to correct me.

 

fireball Posted on Apr 7 2007, 04:48 AM
Do you get the F22 downunder?
If not, then that may be it.. the chassis, etc is AP2 but the engine is AP1 (F20)
Same here in Europe IIRC.
I guess one should be able to order through an official Honda dealer anywhere as long as one has the official F22 part numbers.
Or order in the US. (via HTG?)
I got a on the question if online US part stores sell outside of the US.
(bastards!.. I apologize)

I guess "we" should start talking about F22 retainers instead of AP2 retainers.
Just to make things International.
IMO thats what the "i" in S2Ki stands for.


To RED MX5 : I was not trying to correct you.
(would not dare!)
Just trying to clarify that valve clearance is NOT the way to check if you have cracked retainers.
This is internet and lots of people read it (I guess ) and mentioning a depressed valve may make someone think that valve clearance has something to do with cracked retainers.