ECU & Power Reduction Rumor
01-18-2001, 08:12 AM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2kturkey-
Actually, I think the F20C engine wasn't designed for low to mid rpm optimisation- so consequently, torque figures at that range aren't anything to call home about. If you think about it, the absolute best design for an engine would be a really flat torque curve that began as soon as possible, and didn't drop off. That way, it wouldn't matter what rpm you would be at, and you could power through anything in any gear, at any speed without regard to redlines due to superior design. However, since this is, at this moment, not possible, engineers have to optimise the power where they think it can be best used. For example, Dodge Vipers have very good power from 2000rpm through to around 5000rpm but absolutely hate anything above 6K rpm, and are geared appropriately. The S2000 power range is much higher, and in terms of time lapse, is much shorter. Engines simply rev much quicker at high rpms.
The Viper's engine is also designed to produce huge torque numbers at lower rpms- the S2000 is not. comnsnse is right in his statement- that this particular engine is more prone to detonation at WOT in the low revs, and that characteristic is marginalized as soon as the rpms rise to where the powerband is. In a sense, the S2000 driver would have to work much harder to stay with the Viper driver because there is a. less power (no duh!) and b. less time to use the power (so more shifting).
Anything the enhances the power, and extends the power rpm range, is good especially in a little four cylinder engine. The Mugen ECM does that quite effectively in two cars I own, which is why I think it's a good buy.
-Nick
Actually, I think the F20C engine wasn't designed for low to mid rpm optimisation- so consequently, torque figures at that range aren't anything to call home about. If you think about it, the absolute best design for an engine would be a really flat torque curve that began as soon as possible, and didn't drop off. That way, it wouldn't matter what rpm you would be at, and you could power through anything in any gear, at any speed without regard to redlines due to superior design. However, since this is, at this moment, not possible, engineers have to optimise the power where they think it can be best used. For example, Dodge Vipers have very good power from 2000rpm through to around 5000rpm but absolutely hate anything above 6K rpm, and are geared appropriately. The S2000 power range is much higher, and in terms of time lapse, is much shorter. Engines simply rev much quicker at high rpms.
The Viper's engine is also designed to produce huge torque numbers at lower rpms- the S2000 is not. comnsnse is right in his statement- that this particular engine is more prone to detonation at WOT in the low revs, and that characteristic is marginalized as soon as the rpms rise to where the powerband is. In a sense, the S2000 driver would have to work much harder to stay with the Viper driver because there is a. less power (no duh!) and b. less time to use the power (so more shifting).
Anything the enhances the power, and extends the power rpm range, is good especially in a little four cylinder engine. The Mugen ECM does that quite effectively in two cars I own, which is why I think it's a good buy.
-Nick
01-18-2001, 09:17 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Reverend, et al-
First off, sorry for going off topic. For those that don't care please ignore. If one of the moderators wants to move this off topic that's fine too.
My GT-R is a 1992MY, white (BNR-32 obviously). It was in the November 1999 issue of SCC.
Sean just entered it (telling me after the fact!) in the SCC Ultimate Street Car Challenge.
HKS USA and APEXi recently confirmed wheel power ratings of well over 510HP (rating variance from over 510HP to well over 540HP) on 92 octane gas @1.6bar boost. They do not use same brand chassis dynometers, so we feel pretty confident in those numbers. In fact, Eric at APEXi thinks he can probably eek out some more midrange torque and peak power output- they're working on it as we speak. As it sits, it's currently the most powerful USA DOT and EPA compliant Skyline GT-R. It's about 20% more powerful than the MotoRex Blackbird R34 GT-R and Toshi's APEXi R34 GT-R. It's also tuned overall for the track- not the strip. In any case, we took it to the IDRC Finals in December, and we whipped off 12.5 second 1/4 mile times, all at well over 110mph. In fact, we blew out 3rd gear completely and still managed a 12.9 second pass with a 1-2-4 shift.
To be sort of on topic- while tuning the ECU (HKS F-Con S) we couldn't increase the power significantly in the midrange (2.5K-5k rpm) without inducing ping. We tried ignition timing, different fuel mixtures (slightly more fuel will act as an antidetonant), inducing more boost earlier, etc. We just could not find any more power there. This motor is designed for high rpm use (redline currently at 8500rpm, 500 more than stock) which is pretty high for an twin turbo I6. I feel that this is an extreme case of a highly stressed, high rpm motor, like the F20C.
I'm also working with QuarterMaster currently to produce a custom multiplate clutch/flywheel system that can hold the power, be streetable, and also have a light engagement action. They have been VERY helpful, and for those who are interested, they are prototyping Honda B series clutch/flywheel combos for different applications. These are real race clutches, not remanufactured OEM cores.
By the way, Reverend, what's your real name? I'm just curious...
[Edited by GTRPower on 01-18-2001 at 10:24 AM]
First off, sorry for going off topic. For those that don't care please ignore. If one of the moderators wants to move this off topic that's fine too.
My GT-R is a 1992MY, white (BNR-32 obviously). It was in the November 1999 issue of SCC.
Sean just entered it (telling me after the fact!) in the SCC Ultimate Street Car Challenge.
HKS USA and APEXi recently confirmed wheel power ratings of well over 510HP (rating variance from over 510HP to well over 540HP) on 92 octane gas @1.6bar boost. They do not use same brand chassis dynometers, so we feel pretty confident in those numbers. In fact, Eric at APEXi thinks he can probably eek out some more midrange torque and peak power output- they're working on it as we speak. As it sits, it's currently the most powerful USA DOT and EPA compliant Skyline GT-R. It's about 20% more powerful than the MotoRex Blackbird R34 GT-R and Toshi's APEXi R34 GT-R. It's also tuned overall for the track- not the strip. In any case, we took it to the IDRC Finals in December, and we whipped off 12.5 second 1/4 mile times, all at well over 110mph. In fact, we blew out 3rd gear completely and still managed a 12.9 second pass with a 1-2-4 shift.
To be sort of on topic- while tuning the ECU (HKS F-Con S) we couldn't increase the power significantly in the midrange (2.5K-5k rpm) without inducing ping. We tried ignition timing, different fuel mixtures (slightly more fuel will act as an antidetonant), inducing more boost earlier, etc. We just could not find any more power there. This motor is designed for high rpm use (redline currently at 8500rpm, 500 more than stock) which is pretty high for an twin turbo I6. I feel that this is an extreme case of a highly stressed, high rpm motor, like the F20C.
I'm also working with QuarterMaster currently to produce a custom multiplate clutch/flywheel system that can hold the power, be streetable, and also have a light engagement action. They have been VERY helpful, and for those who are interested, they are prototyping Honda B series clutch/flywheel combos for different applications. These are real race clutches, not remanufactured OEM cores.
By the way, Reverend, what's your real name? I'm just curious...
[Edited by GTRPower on 01-18-2001 at 10:24 AM]
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
krazylune
S2000 Under The Hood
23
10-15-2003 01:54 PM